Upgrading coax?

[579]

I've always run rg-58, I've never run more than 100 w's. I recently purchased a Midnight Special 700. With my radio swing of 12 w's, I'm told that I should see anywhere in the high 400's. I have a 3' jumper from radio to amp, a 3' jumper from amp to meter, and an 18' length from meter to antenna. All in rg-58 coax.

Is it at anyway possible to just keep the rg-58 that I already have?

If the coax will not work than why does it come on Wilson 5000 mag mount? Which is suppose to be good for 5000 w's.

I also have some old Radio Shack ( Archer ) rg-8. Should I make jumpers out of this, or upgrade to rg-8x?

The reason I'm stuck on the rg-58, is I already have it, and the local International truck dealership sell's rg-58. So it's easy access for me If I need to get a new jumper if I need one. If I had to upgrade I would have to order some online.

I want this amp to last, and if that means getting better coax than I will, but I'd rather not have to at this time.

[linx]

Best thing I can say in your situation is this: Quality

RG58 is ok for really low band HF transmission. For instance, it probably works great around 3mhz, and works "mediocre" at 30mhz.

When you mention RG58, you're not telling us a lot. There's different brands of RG58, and likewise each brand has their own specification as well as their own build quality. Some generic RG58 may only be good up to 300w, and then there's higher quality RG58 like the kind with a solid center core that will handle 1000+w.

A major issue with me, and RG58, is 2 things. #1. Shielding. #2. Power Loss. I'll break this down for you.
#1. Shielding. Brother...you need good shielding running power. You will bleed and cause interference with every piece of electronic equipment in that truck.
#2. Power Loss. Power loss is typically measured in 100ft runs, and mesured in DB of loss. With you running probably a 20ft run, it's hard to tell you what power loss will be, but it's not going to be a good sight. Even something as small as 2db of loss will translate into losing up to 30% of your power output.

If you are concerned with running tiny coax, then go with quality. Times Microwave makes a LMR 200 that is the same size as the RG58. It has lower DB loss, and has a double shield. If you can go up to the size of a RG8X, then there is a LMR240UF that is ultra flexible and has about half the DB loss of RG58.

I'm not sure why Wilson chooses to use it, unless they are using a super hiqh quality. NO RG58 WILL HANDLE 5000w, lol. This is a major issue I have with Wilson, is putting out false advertising.

My whole setup either consist of Andrews Heliax, LMR 400, or high quality RG213. The less loss you can get, the more power going out your antenna.

Enjoy and let me know if ya have more questions.

Rob - linx

[Big_Kahuna]

Hey Linx What is a good 213? I got some RSC 213 95% stranded center but that stuff is tough. Need something flexible. Was going to go with LMR-240UF for the mobile is that LMR-400 flexible and is the size compared to the 213.

[jessejamesdallas]

Unless you have a Wilson 5000 that has had the coax replaced...The Wilson 5000 has RG mini-8 on it from the factory...The Wilson 1000 uses RG 58 though....

Now this is provided that the good-folks over at Barjan has not gone and changed what is used on the Wilson 5000, from what was used back when Wilson was still making the antenna's!

[SARGE]

I just recently purchased 45' of LMR-400UF (times microwave), it is doubled shielded and to me seems to be alot more flexible than the cheaper off brand RG-213 I have running thru one of my other vehicles. I can now see myself buying some more of this stuff to run thru my dually.

['Doc]

RG-58 gets a 'bad rap' without a good reason. As long as you don't 'push' it past it's abilities, and as long as it's a decent quality/grade of cable, it'll work just dandy. The loss aspect deals with length. For short runs, there will probably not be enough loss to even be recognizable. That also depends on just how well the whole antenna system is put together, tuned, so to speak. If the antenna has a close to 50 ohm impedance as it should, then there will be less 'strain' on the feed line, it'll last longer with no problems. If that antenna is really out in left field, it isn't going to make any difference what coax you use, it'll show the 'strain', fail.
Read the specs. When it gets sort of 'close' to the maximum, it's a good idea to go to the next 'higher' size/grade. Most of the specs for coax is of a 'characteristic' type, not 'rock solid' absolute values. A fair amount of 'slack' in those specs, in both directions. Treat it like you think it ought to be treated...
- 'Doc

[Texas Mobil 219]

I ran RG 8X for a few years. Its a good coax if your dont go over 300 watts. It will wear it out. I switch to Belden 9913. it has a double shield. Some say it to stiff to work with but IMO. Its great stuff and really easy to snake thru a mobil. The ends are kinda hard to get on and takes some practice. But in the end the results are rewarding. It will deliever a flat SWR.

As far as length goes. All you need if enough to get from point A to point B.

Hope this helps ya.

219 back quite,

[linx]

Hey Linx What is a good 213? I got some RSC 213 95% stranded center but that stuff is tough. Need something flexible. Was going to go with LMR-240UF for the mobile is that LMR-400 flexible and is the size compared to the 213.

My 213, and my favorite 213 is true Belden 8267/RG-213/U. As with coax like Times Microwave, there will always be clones.

If you think 213 is tough, then you wouldn't want to touch a piece of LMR400 that's not the ultra flex, lol. Now that's tough. The LMR240UF is a good coax, and is smaller than the 213U. The 240 is about the size of standard RG8X. As said, you want to get the UF in Times Microwave. Their outter jacket is so thick alone to cause issues...not to mention the center conductor being stiff.

LMR 400UF, and the Belder 9913 are great coax's. I think what this guy is getting at, is that he wants small coax.

Doc, I agree it has a bad wrap, and that's due to quality issues. There's tons of cheap RG58, and most of it is usless in my setup. For what I do though, it makes more sense to buy quality over quantity b/c I never know if I'm going to using the coax for HF or VHF. Might as well have the best I can get and not have to worry about it. I shouldn't have hardly any line loss on my end.

['Doc]

"Wearing out" coax. That's something I have a hard time with. To me, 'wearing' something out means a mechanical thing, not electrical. Dealing with electrical stuff, it either works or it doesn't, something about it's electrical characteristics changes making it unusable. You can't wring all the electrons out of coax, there's typically always the same amount in that stuff. An electron may 'move', but it typically gets replaced from somewhere, it evens out, sort of. An excess of electrons is called a 'charge'. I wouldn't advise touching it, it's 'shocking'. No idea what a 'lack' of electrons is called, never ran across one really. A 'negative' charge? Instead of getting 'shocked', does a 'negative' charge make you bored?
If you abuse something, change it's characteristics, I guess you wore it out. So 'wearing out' coax is possible I guess. I still have a hard time relating that term to coax. Oh well...
- 'Doc

[579]

My coax reads - RG-58 A/U 95% shield.

[the_junkie]

Hey Linx What is a good 213? I got some RSC 213 95% stranded center but that stuff is tough. Need something flexible. Was going to go with LMR-240UF for the mobile is that LMR-400 flexible and is the size compared to the 213.

My 213, and my favorite 213 is true Belden 8267/RG-213/U. As with coax like Times Microwave, there will always be clones.

If you think 213 is tough, then you wouldn't want to touch a piece of LMR400 that's not the ultra flex, lol. Now that's tough. The LMR240UF is a good coax, and is smaller than the 213U. The 240 is about the size of standard RG8X. As said, you want to get the UF in Times Microwave. Their outter jacket is so thick alone to cause issues...not to mention the center conductor being stiff.

LMR 400UF, and the Belder 9913 are great coax's. I think what this guy is getting at, is that he wants small coax.

Linx, I have to disagree with ya my man.

I have a bunch of lmr-400 solidcore times microwave, and that stuff bends.

No, it's not as flexible as say, rg-8, but

there ya have it

[jessejamesdallas]

"Wearing out" coax. That's something I have a hard time with. To me, 'wearing' something out means a mechanical thing, not electrical. Dealing with electrical stuff, it either works or it doesn't, something about it's electrical characteristics changes making it unusable. You can't wring all the electrons out of coax, there's typically always the same amount in that stuff. An electron may 'move', but it typically gets replaced from somewhere, it evens out, sort of. An excess of electrons is called a 'charge'. I wouldn't advise touching it, it's 'shocking'. No idea what a 'lack' of electrons is called, never ran across one really. A 'negative' charge? Instead of getting 'shocked', does a 'negative' charge make you bored?
If you abuse something, change it's characteristics, I guess you wore it out. So 'wearing out' coax is possible I guess. I still have a hard time relating that term to coax. Oh well...
- 'Doc

You can wear out coax several ways....1, simply leaving it out in the weather after a while, the plastic outer shield will deteriorate to the point it gets cracks in it, and mosture...

2nd. Would be running Mega Watt's threw it after a while can burn the stuff up...

3rd, having it ran threw a door jam will cause it to get pinched to the point the center conductor wire breaks...

4th, running it threw a hole in the firewall, without a rubber gourmet, it can get a hole rubbed into it from the sheet metal of the firewall...

-nothing last forever!

[Texas Mobil 219]

Yep

[linx]

Junkie, it bends yes. In fact, on by biggest beam on my tower, I have a round loop consisting of 8 turns as a RF choke.

I think ya read what I said wrong. What I said, is if he thinks RG213 is tough, then he needs to get a hold of a piece of LMR 400. I have both in my setup. The RG213 is a stranded center conductor and has a rubber casing whereas the LMR 400 is a solid core with a hard PVC-type casing. What my statement meant is that the LMR 400 was more rigid than the RG213.

I've got a bunch of it too, or I wouldn't promote it, lol. I've ever ran it in the mobile and snaked it through, and I've got it ran under my house, at the top of my tower for jumpers between my heliax hardline, and have it inside the shack for jumpers.

[the_junkie]

Junkie, it bends yes. In fact, on by biggest beam on my tower, I have a round loop consisting of 8 turns as a RF choke.

I think ya read what I said wrong. What I said, is if he thinks RG213 is tough, then he needs to get a hold of a piece of LMR 400. I have both in my setup. The RG213 is a stranded center conductor and has a rubber casing whereas the LMR 400 is a solid core with a hard PVC-type casing. What my statement meant is that the LMR 400 was more rigid than the RG213.

I've got a bunch of it too, or I wouldn't promote it, lol. I've ever ran it in the mobile and snaked it through, and I've got it ran under my house, at the top of my tower for jumpers between my heliax hardline, and have it inside the shack for jumpers.

My bad, I thought u were saying that it was hard to bend...oops.

I was really impressed with the bend radius from that, as the non-TM LMR400 that i had, would make a circle probably 1 1/2 times that, no smaller. This seems to have a more pliable jacket, as the other stuff was really, like u said, pvc-type.

[linx]

I think Times Microwave and Andews Heliax products are by far the best products on the market...there's no doubt. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality control they have at their factories.

['Doc]

Without getting into a 'coax debate', you really do need to take a look at the practical aspects of which type/size/brand of feed line you want to use, and particularly, 'where' you plan to use it. Nothing wrong with wanting to have the 'best', but the definition of 'best' changes with how and where it's applied. There certainly isn't anything wrong with 'Times Microwave' or 'Andrews' feed lines! But there's also no particular advantage to using either on the HF bands. there are disadvantages associated with them too, mainly price. If you just have to have the "good stuff" no matter the cost, then have at it. But unless you have a particularly long run to the antenna, or unless you are dealing with VHF/UHF/SHF bands, you are just not getting enough value for your dollars to make it worth while. But, they are your dollars, spend them like you want.
Bending coaxial cable. Best advice is don't force it to bend! That leads to something called 'migration'. The center conductor is placed under enough pressure that it tends to move to one side instead of staying in the center. It takes time, but it do migrate. And that's bad. That gradual movement is also very hard to 'catch', leads to some really weird problems, and ain't never going to go back like it was to start with. Make big loops. Not particularly huge, just bigger than the smallest that's possible. Not very specific as to radius, but then how would I know, right?
- 'Doc

[579]

I called a few shops today, and was told the same at every one. Factory made jumpers are junk. They all said that they could custom make me what I want. Are they all just trying to make a buck or is it worth twice the money to get custom made rg8x coax?

[the_junkie]

i would say get custom made. if you want to run rg-8, then that is fine, but if you decide to upgrade agaon, then u may decide to go bigger with coax again. so i would go with at least rg-213, although u can sometimes find lmr400 cheaper than 213, cuz doin it all at once is cheaper than doing it over again. I actually wish i would have put in lmr400 a long time ago. save a lot of $ in the long run.

just my .02 again

o, and this is what 1300w RMS does to a wilson 5000



I know the guy who did that. Non-volted 2x8 doin 1300 rms, and that was the result a few days ago

['Doc]

"Are they all just trying to make a buck...", well, sure they are. Although, some suppliers supply better grades of 'junk' than others. About the best thing I can think of is to make your own. Have to learn how to do that, but after you do, you cut out one level of pricing, sort of. I trust connections I make more than connections other people make. That doesn't always work out exactly that way, but show me someone who doesn't make mistakes every now and then. Oh, that's not an offer to make jumpers for you, you can't afford me. @#$$, sometimes I can't afford myself!
- 'Doc

[579]

I have a bunch or Archer rg-8 u. Would that stuff be able to do the job? If I can't use the big rg-8 that I have, and factory made rg8x is no good, than their's a place about an hour from me that will make me rg-213 jumpers. His hours are terrible, it's so hard for me to get to him. The funny thing is I will be in his area tommorow, but even if I went in to see him, he would'nt be able to make them for me while I waited. He says he's very busy and all alone. I know what a sponsor wants for custom made 213 jumpers, so I'll call the tech close to me tommorow and get a price, and go from their.

If I have to get custom jumpers made than I won't even bother with mini x. I'll pay the little bit extra for the bigger stuff.

[cowboy 221]

Can anyone tell me what RG 8 is rated at please? (watts) thanks 221

[Texas Mobil 219]

Here ya go.

[Please login or register to view this link]`

[579]

Thanks for everyones help. New RG-213/U is on its way.