1992 Jeep Cherokee... new and need help!
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
1992 Jeep Cherokee... new and need help!
Ok I am new to the CB world... although I do have an extensive background in 12 volt electronics.. i am an installer for a local car audio/security/custom shop and I have been doing it for years... I have a cobra 29 WX NW ST mounted directed in between the flip down sun visors in my Jeep. I have 2 antennas currently run on the vehicle the first one is a K30 magnet mount sitting on the roof. The second is a K40 4.5 foot top loaded superwhip. It is mounted on the drivers rear corner above the tail light with a Firestick door jamb mount bolted directed to the Jeep body. I got my SWR check with the K30 and it was reading really high (around 2.. I was told i had a possibly coax issue so i checked the cable for pinches and damage none to be found. That's why I switched to the other antenna(not running them simultaneously) After installing the new antenna and coax I am getting the same behavior. I having reception problems. I am only picking up chatter when directly next to a rig on the interstate and even then I can barely make it out and its coming in with an echo. I have not checked SWR with new antenna/coax yet. The only one I know with a meter is about a 45 minute drive from me and i don't get much time to get out and I don't know any actual shops in my area(Fort Mill,SC just south of Charlotte). I have checked to idiot things to check like squelch etc. With the new ant/coax i have continuity where I should and none where I shouldn't. I have a fluke automotive meter and I also have a O-scope( and know how to use it) Tell me what to check and what to look for... I am not scared to open up the radio if necessary. I will try to find an SWR meter of my own this weekend if i get the chance.
I'm actually kinda emabarrassed I cant get my CB working right yet I can make nearly any car start by the push of a button!
I'm actually kinda emabarrassed I cant get my CB working right yet I can make nearly any car start by the push of a button!
First off welcome to the forum. Just a suggestion, take some time and read through the threads in the "Intro To Radios 101" section of the forum. Sometimes simply going back to basics solves the problem.
Using the mag mount until you get things going shouldn't be a problem. If it's a 2:1 match the radio will be fine especially if you keep your key ups (transmissions) short. That being said and focusing on your rear mount, the first thing to check is the feed line. A simple continuity check should yield whether it's okay or not. On the PL-259 connector in the back of the radio, measure between the center pin (lead) and coupling nut (shield). There should be no conductivity between the two. If there is, then go to the stud assembly and disconnect the connector(s). Check it from that end. If it shows good, then move on to the stud assembly. There are two basic type stud assemblies that use different coaxial connectors. If yours has the SO-239 (receives the PL-259 UHF connector like what goes in the radio) then there should be no insulator on the bottom of the mount and stud, just the top to insulate the antenna from ground. If you have the crimp on ring connector type (my personal favorite) then the stud should have an insulator on both top and bottom to keep the antenna from shorting to ground. Assuming your clear on that, take a measurement from the base of the antenna/top of the stud to the mount. There should be no continuity between the two. If there is any, there is likely part of the problem. Replace the stud assembly and/or insulators as needed.
A couple things about the mounting location, and overall installation. I too have a couple of Jeeps ('02 TJ & '95 XJ), and usually the reason guys mount them on the back like you did is for looks. That's fine, but it really does limit antennas you can use effectively and sets you up for side reflection which may be impossible to overcome with the antenna you have. Not seeing the entire installation I'm merely speculating on what I've seen other XJ, ZJ, and WJ owners do. Almost all of them end up having some trouble mounting there....usually counterpoise (aka 'ground') connection. Shiney metal is your friend, and making sure you have that isn't likely to be measurable with a meter. I personally like adding at least one self tapping screw(s) through the mount into the sheet metal. That's what's always worked for me. And you'd be wise to consider investing in an inexpensive SWR meter like the Radio Shack one for $45. It's a good value and allot of people own them. I have one in my pick up truck, but more to see what my amplifier(s) are doing more than anything.
Hope that helps a little and good luck.
Using the mag mount until you get things going shouldn't be a problem. If it's a 2:1 match the radio will be fine especially if you keep your key ups (transmissions) short. That being said and focusing on your rear mount, the first thing to check is the feed line. A simple continuity check should yield whether it's okay or not. On the PL-259 connector in the back of the radio, measure between the center pin (lead) and coupling nut (shield). There should be no conductivity between the two. If there is, then go to the stud assembly and disconnect the connector(s). Check it from that end. If it shows good, then move on to the stud assembly. There are two basic type stud assemblies that use different coaxial connectors. If yours has the SO-239 (receives the PL-259 UHF connector like what goes in the radio) then there should be no insulator on the bottom of the mount and stud, just the top to insulate the antenna from ground. If you have the crimp on ring connector type (my personal favorite) then the stud should have an insulator on both top and bottom to keep the antenna from shorting to ground. Assuming your clear on that, take a measurement from the base of the antenna/top of the stud to the mount. There should be no continuity between the two. If there is any, there is likely part of the problem. Replace the stud assembly and/or insulators as needed.
A couple things about the mounting location, and overall installation. I too have a couple of Jeeps ('02 TJ & '95 XJ), and usually the reason guys mount them on the back like you did is for looks. That's fine, but it really does limit antennas you can use effectively and sets you up for side reflection which may be impossible to overcome with the antenna you have. Not seeing the entire installation I'm merely speculating on what I've seen other XJ, ZJ, and WJ owners do. Almost all of them end up having some trouble mounting there....usually counterpoise (aka 'ground') connection. Shiney metal is your friend, and making sure you have that isn't likely to be measurable with a meter. I personally like adding at least one self tapping screw(s) through the mount into the sheet metal. That's what's always worked for me. And you'd be wise to consider investing in an inexpensive SWR meter like the Radio Shack one for $45. It's a good value and allot of people own them. I have one in my pick up truck, but more to see what my amplifier(s) are doing more than anything.
Hope that helps a little and good luck.
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
My SWR with the mag mount is sitting at 2.8 wound up with a smiley thing with the 8 somehow. The continuity checks all are fine. I checked that before I even hooked the coax to the radio. The mount itself actually has 4 big self tapping stainless screws in it
It sounds like it's time to start tuning/adjusting those antennas. I seriously doubt it that will 'solve' the not being able to hear chatter till you're next to the chatterers, but it will certainly improve things.
An ohm meter can certainly tell you if there's a short/open circuit at DC but it can't tell you anything about an open/shorter circuit at radio frequencies. One of the differences between DC and AC. Since you deal with audio systems, I'll bet you've run into something called 'impedance'. That's what you're dealing with with antennas and what SWR tells you about. If the two impedances, the feed line and the antenna are the same, then the SWR would be 1 to 1, the meter would read '0'. As those two impedances start to get different, the SWR goes up because of an impedance mismatch.
The other part of tuning an antenna is lowering the reactances of that antenna as much as possible, which makes it 'resonant'. (You've also probably run into that 'reactance' thingy with audio stuff, right?) That can get a bit complicated, 'involved', and I'm not going to try explaining that here! In general, people don't mess with resonance much, most commercially sold antennas are at least 'close'. An SWR meter can't tell you anything about resonance or reactances. There are meters that can, but they are not cheap by any means, and seldom worth having if you aren't going to be doing a lot of antenna tuning. (Sort of like that 'scope?)
Have fun!
- 'Doc
An ohm meter can certainly tell you if there's a short/open circuit at DC but it can't tell you anything about an open/shorter circuit at radio frequencies. One of the differences between DC and AC. Since you deal with audio systems, I'll bet you've run into something called 'impedance'. That's what you're dealing with with antennas and what SWR tells you about. If the two impedances, the feed line and the antenna are the same, then the SWR would be 1 to 1, the meter would read '0'. As those two impedances start to get different, the SWR goes up because of an impedance mismatch.
The other part of tuning an antenna is lowering the reactances of that antenna as much as possible, which makes it 'resonant'. (You've also probably run into that 'reactance' thingy with audio stuff, right?) That can get a bit complicated, 'involved', and I'm not going to try explaining that here! In general, people don't mess with resonance much, most commercially sold antennas are at least 'close'. An SWR meter can't tell you anything about resonance or reactances. There are meters that can, but they are not cheap by any means, and seldom worth having if you aren't going to be doing a lot of antenna tuning. (Sort of like that 'scope?)
Have fun!
- 'Doc
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
First off I want to thank those who have chimed in so far. I will be headed to radio shack once I get off of work today. I will check the swr on both antennae and try to get them reasonable. Any advice on improving reception other wise? What is this peak and tune I keep seeing? And Doc that scope I have is a great tool to have. Its one of those tools that when you need it you NEED it deals.
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
alright home from work with a SWR meter.... and i have been doing some checking... My SWR is pegging out completely! So far I have tried 2 different antennas, 2 different coax, 2 different SWR meters.... same results each time the meter just completely pegs out... could this possibly be something in the radio itself?
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MDYoungblood Verified
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Hi rwmagee90,
"My SWR with the mag mount is sitting at 2.8 wound up with a smiley thing with the 8 somehow. The continuity checks all are fine. I checked that before I even hooked the coax to the radio. The mount itself actually has 4 big self tapping stainless screws in it."
I need to ask where are you doing your tests on your vehicle, hopefully not in a garage, under a carport, or near a metal building. Checking the swr should be done out in the open. If the swr meter is pegging all the way to the right, you have a dead short in the coax, the mount insulators are on wrong, etc. Most problems with magnet mounts is the coax breaks where it enters the vehicle. The 4.5 whip might be seeing the metal from the c pillar of the vehicle. Take a pic of your install and post it so we can see whats going on.
Greg
"My SWR with the mag mount is sitting at 2.8 wound up with a smiley thing with the 8 somehow. The continuity checks all are fine. I checked that before I even hooked the coax to the radio. The mount itself actually has 4 big self tapping stainless screws in it."
I need to ask where are you doing your tests on your vehicle, hopefully not in a garage, under a carport, or near a metal building. Checking the swr should be done out in the open. If the swr meter is pegging all the way to the right, you have a dead short in the coax, the mount insulators are on wrong, etc. Most problems with magnet mounts is the coax breaks where it enters the vehicle. The 4.5 whip might be seeing the metal from the c pillar of the vehicle. Take a pic of your install and post it so we can see whats going on.
Greg
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
i was going to try and post some pics but it wont let me for some reason says i am not allowed to use img codes
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MDYoungblood Verified
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you need 5 more posts then you can do pics
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
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Well now I know why I can't post pics.... I have triple checked everything for shorts, no obvious breaks in cables (visually and with a dmm) I have a ground strap from the rear mount to inside the jeep. All grounds are attached to bare metal and power is direct from the battery. All I can think of is a radio issue or maybe a chassis to battery ground. I will investigate that a little better tomorrow when I replace the battery. Its getting weak
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
Another question? any way to build a saltwater dummy load without an antenna analyzer? I know it can be done using radio but if unsure of radio conditions any other way to check the SWR on it? just trying to figure out if the is any way I can test the actual radio to see if it maybe be something internal?
Know anyone that has a working mobile, or base station for that matter? See if you can use their antenna. It may also be a good thing if you can get someone else to take a look at your set up. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees, you know?
- 'Doc
- 'Doc
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MDYoungblood Verified
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good morning rwmagee90,
Instead of a salt water dummy load build this one, you can probably have the parts at your shop.
Greg
Instead of a salt water dummy load build this one, you can probably have the parts at your shop.
Greg
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
Unfortunately I am not working today... but we only keep 1/4 watt resistors around the shop anyway but going to sears to pickup a battery and radio shack is right next door ill see if they have something I can use. On the plus side of things I found a factory service manual and I did bring my scope home so I maybe be able to make a few adjustments if neccessay once I get a dummy load together
- rwmagee90
- Super Mud-Duck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Apr 15 2011, 17:18
- Real Name: ryan
I put the new battery in the Jeep and upgraded the grounds from the battery to chassis and the motor. Used high quality car audio 4 ga wires for that since no one in town seems to have ground straps. Put in a Sears Diehard Platinum P-1 battery same as an Odessey PC1500 but $150 cheaper. No change to SWR though. I decided to just relax and enjoy the rest of my day off. Don't get too many of those.