Stryker 440 driving a 4 pill hi-drive amp(x400hd)

[bird dogger]

Hello. I was wondering if a stryker 440 could be used as the driver for the x400hd made by xforce. I will be buying a new radio and amp and wondered if this radio would drive the x400hd. the stryker 440 is stock by the way. any help would be useful. thanks guys. anybody hear run the 440

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Tuesday, 27 November 2012, 11:13 AM

[MDYoungblood]

Hello bird dogger,
Welcome to CBRT.
It doesn't look like a good match up because the numbers aren't right. The radio will max out at round 60watts on swing so the average is maybe 30-40watts. Thex400HD needs about 200watts for it to work properly. I think my answer would have to be no.

73

Greg

[KG4KGW]

This is yet another prime example of an amplifier advertised as putting out way more than it is possible of producing.

The xforce x400hd boasts that it is 4 x 2SC2789

Here is the data sheet on that transistor http://www.datasheetcatalog.o ... a/1468.pdf

it has a max output power of 100W PEP per transistor with 6-10W of drive. I would be hard pressed to see this amplifier do more than the stated 400W that the Toshiba transistor is rated for.

I'm not really sure why you would ever need to drive one of these with more than 10W other than possibly a voltage divider network on the front end. I've yet to see or find a schematic on the amplifier that would shed light on this. Perhaps you should write the manufacturer of the amplifier and ask them to explain why you need so much drive and how they are able to squeeze more out of those 4 transistors than the design suggests that they are capable of doing.

Interestingly enough they recommend driving it with a 40-80W amplifier.

Below is directly from the manufacturer's site.

Transistors 4 x 2SC2879
Dimensions H **4 1/4**" x L 11 x W 6 3/4"
Amp Draw (continuous) 45
Amp Draw (maximum) 100
Class C
SSB Delay available
Pre-amp available
Recommended driver: X-40 or X-80
Power Output (RMS) 350 Watts
Power Output (PEP) 650 Watts
Driven Power (RMS) 450 Watts
Driven Power (PEP) 1000 Watts

[MDYoungblood]

Actually if you read it right they recommend a driver, X-40 or X-80, the outputs are 140watts or 240watts . A 2SC2879 will put out 100watts at 12.6v with 6 watts input but if you go to 10watts it will put out 130watts. Now lets say 25watts input its output will be just less than 200watts at 12.6v, now lets start playing with the voltage up it to 14.2v. I would say that the 1000watts is a little exaggerated but the amps mostly do what you pay for. The question was will the radio drive the amp and the answer is still no.

3's

Greg

[KG4KGW]

Specified 12.5V, 28MHz Characteristics
Output Power : Po = 100WPEP
Power Gain : Gp = 13dB
Collector Efficiency : ηC = 35% (Min.)
Intermodulation Distortion : IMD = −24dB(Max.)
(MIL Standard)

Call me crazy, but you can over volt and over drive the transistor until you are blue in the face and it isn't going to get you a KW from a 400W transistor. You are foolish to think you can. If the engineers at Toshiba thought this was possible they would certainly state it in the specifications for the transistors.

Also the 40 is a 60W transistor and the 80 is 2 60w transistors. As I said before I don't know what the input of this amplifier is because the schematic isn't readily available on the internet. If they divide the voltage enough on the input you can put a KW into it, but your still only going to get 400 clean watts out of this amplifier in Class C operation.

If you were to use the radio as it sits it would be putting out close to what the 40 was doing as a driver amp. If you follow the specs on the transistor and remove the terrible input circuit from the amplifier you can drive it with 6-10w of RF and get about 400w of useable return without stressing the components.

You can rev a 350 chevy motor up to 9 grand, but it won't stay together for long. Used to race cars and the memory function on the tach will make you realize that 9 times out of 10 you are the reason that you had to build another motor.

[Deleted User 14541]

Is it an x400 which is a 1x4 or a 400hd which is just a 4 pill? If it is the 400hd a 60 watt radio will work great with it. 200 watts of drive is what xforce says it will take but remember its marketed as a competition amp. I've ran one with 50 watts of drive and they work great. If you have a 1x4 the 60 watt radio is excessive. Turn down the radio or have the driver in the amp bypassed. People run hot radios into 1x4s but you can pick out that nasty mudduck audio anywhere.

[MDYoungblood]

I like this;
"You can rev a 350 chevy motor up to 9 grand, but it won't stay together for long."
But first you have to build the motor to do 9K, same with the amp. The spec sheets you keep quoting are for the benefit of a design engineer to to build something in the 3-30Mhz range. I am beginning to think in your world every CB'er should have a completely stock 4 watt max AM radio with 75% modulation.

3's

Greg

[Deleted User 14541]

If you're going to compete run the snot out of it but if you want to shoot skip or rag chew then duty cycle it a nice thing. I just like to sound good and know the difference between real watts and CB radio fiction....If someone wants to key my setup will get nasty with the turn of a knob.

[KG4KGW]

I like this;
"You can rev a 350 chevy motor up to 9 grand, but it won't stay together for long."
But first you have to build the motor to do 9K, same with the amp. The spec sheets you keep quoting are for the benefit of a design engineer to to build something in the 3-30Mhz range. I am beginning to think in your world every CB'er should have a completely stock 4 watt max AM radio with 75% modulation.

3's

Greg

You are right that you first will have to build it to do that 9K. Your going to have to balance everything and use very high quality components. A stock engine is likely to come apart closer to 7 or 8K. It is the same with an amplifier. If you want to run a KW, by all means. However, saying that you are going to take a transistor that does 100w and use 4 of them to get 1000w is just not going to happen.

The material is out there for anyone who wants to read and learn how to make an actual KW amplifier that isn't just a distortion and noise maker to splatter unwanted RF all over the band. If everyone was running 4 watts there would be no splatter anywhere. We all know that isn't going to happen. So why not educate people to buy or build a good quality amplifier that isn't going to make them sound terrible and will be a pleasure to hear on the air?

There are plenty of very high power stations out there on the air that you would never really know were running more than a stock radio, other than the fact you can hear them every day and they are always pegging out the S-meter. Yet they don't sound distorted and if you turn up or down a channel you don't hear them there. These guys are running a quality radio that is being properly fed by a quality microphone into a quality amplifier that has and even higher quality antenna.

Some of us actually enjoy having a conversation on the radio and not just spamming meaningless key down phrases to express our desire to "out key" the other stations with off frequency distorted signals.

Why would you want to overdrive the amplifier and create all that trash on the band? That doesn't seem like a lot to ask. If you want to run power get a real amplifier that can actually do 1-2KW without distortion and clean up your input signal. You will quickly find that your neighbors won't even notice you have been on the radio. You won't be getting into everyone's telephone and television. You won't be keeping others from enjoying the bands.

If all you want to do is be a jammer, you should probably just focus on your local area first and then if no one has sought you out and put the fear of God into you...You can move on to other cities and towns.

The truth is DX doesn't need a lot of power. Every time you increase your signal 1 dB on the RX station you have to double your power. You are quickly going to run out of ability to make power. I have worked the world with 5-100w and I get the same signal reports with 800W as I get with 5. If you can hear the station, odds are they can hear you too. I good DXer will look for someone else who operates their station using good practices, more often than not they are not interested in the signal level at all.

[petriach]

Yes,it will drive it just fine.

If you want your amp to live anywhere near a long life,ignore what XForce lists for drive requirements and output power. Throwing more power at it just makes more heat,honestly. Take Toshiba's test circuit graph for power.

Each increment of power is 2W...see if you notice something. 0-60-95-110-125-130. Ever graphed a logarithmic function?

KG4KGW is trying to steer you in the right direction. Look at the datasheets for the parts. The manufacturer doesn't lie. You have to do your OWN research about these things. These products are for the most part illegal(depending on where you live on the planet),and there is no one checking to make sure someone is telling the truth,except the buyer.