Max 2000 ground plane

[cecil]

I purchased the max 2000 ground plane kit a while back. Got a chance today to install it. Wanting more height, i added a section of mast pipe left over from some greenhouse parts my father-in-law had. I wanted the radials to be 9' or higher above the roof peak. Assembled everything on the ground, then raised it up only to have it all crash down , bending pipe. I then went back to my original height with the ground plane only a foot over roof peak. Once fastened down, i noticed one of the radials was pointing lower than the other 3.
Questions: should i just bend the radial bracket back and leave it?
Will the radial make any noticeable difference at this height or should i try again for more height ?
My SWR also increased in the process - time for a antenna tuner??
Thanks in advance!

[295 antenna]

How much difference between the bent radial and the others ?

[cecil]

How much difference between the bent radial and the others ?

Maybe 6 to 8" at the end of the bent one. I can tell the v pattern is off on that side compared to the other side.

[295 antenna]

So when you say your swr is off .what is it ? As far as an antenna tuner goes are you running just 11 meters?

[MDYoungblood]

Personally I've never used the GPK on this type of antenna, I always thought if they were beneficial they would be sold with the antenna. Not sure why the radial is bent (thought they were fiberglass rods) but I would have bent it back straight. After installing them did you readjust the rings to get the SWR better?

3's

Greg

[cecil]

So when you say your swr is off .what is it ? As far as an antenna tuner goes are you running just 11 meters?

Yes, 11 meters for now. Once i have a test site near me open I'm going for my tech. Ticket. So, hopefully 10 meters in future.

Swr is 1.8 on ch 1
1.6 on ch 40
This is with amp on.

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We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 22 seconds:

Personally I've never used the GPK on this type of antenna, I always thought if they were beneficial they would be sold with the antenna. Not sure why the radial is bent (thought they were fiberglass rods) but I would have bent it back straight. After installing them did you readjust the rings to get the SWR better?

3's

Greg

Hi Greg- the metal bracket that holds the fiberglass rods had bent when it hit the roof...didnt see that it was out of whack untill i got the antenna back up. Unless i bring it down again, i cant adjust the rings.
Im thinking of taking it off and starting over.

[The DB]

What happens with SWR as you keep going higher in frequency if you can? If SWR continues to drop you will need to adjust the matching system to compensate.

Even moving a mobile antenna to a different place on a vehicle would cause you to have to re-tune because you changed where the antenna is on its "ground plane". In this case, you added a ground plane that didn't exist before, which can change the antenna's characteristics even more. Although, if the antenna's low point is in within the CB's 40 channel range, I wouldn't worry about re-tuning, so it depends on where the SWR low point is.

Also, the roof that the radials are near, what is it made out of? I hope it isn't metal.

The DB

[cecil]

What happens with SWR as you keep going higher in frequency if you can? If SWR continues to drop you will need to adjust the matching system to compensate.

Even moving a mobile antenna to a different place on a vehicle would cause you to have to re-tune because you changed where the antenna is on its "ground plane". In this case, you added a ground plane that didn't exist before, which can change the antenna's characteristics even more. Although, if the antenna's low point is in within the CB's 40 channel range, I wouldn't worry about re-tuning, so it depends on where the SWR low point is.

Also, the roof that the radials are near, what is it made out of? I hope it isn't metal.

The DB

Not a metal roof, regular fiberglass shingles. I took the radials off this afternoon and fooled around with the tuning rings on antenna. With amp on : ch 1 1.3:1, ch. 40 lets call it 1.27:1. Made some AM contacts today, good reports.

Still want to know if an antenna tuner would aid in lowering my SWR??

Antenna is grounded, radio and amp are grouned too. Running( new this year ) RG 213 coax.
I kept the radials off and didn't mess with it again.

[Gunner357]

Why? 1:3 is fine?

[cecil]

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

[Gunner357]

mine moves too more watts..... now if it a lot a different issue but just a couple values i wouldn't worry

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 42 seconds:

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

Im a perfectionist too but getting over the SWR gig

[cecil]

mine moves too more watts..... now if it a lot a different issue but just a couple values i wouldn't worry

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 42 seconds:

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

Im a perfectionist too but getting over the SWR gig

Yeah, hear you there Gunner! Lol
That needle moves over 2:1 when speaking on ssb.

[Gunner357]

mine moves too more watts..... now if it a lot a different issue but just a couple values i wouldn't worry

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 42 seconds:

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

Im a perfectionist too but getting over the SWR gig

Yeah, hear you there Gunner! Lol
That needle moves over 2:1 when speaking on ssb.

Some Frequencies on the HAM are 3:1 but radio knocks it down into the 2's which is fine But I hear ya on low SWR's looks nicer ..... lol

[cecil]

mine moves too more watts..... now if it a lot a different issue but just a couple values i wouldn't worry

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 42 seconds:

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

Im a perfectionist too but getting over the SWR gig

Yeah, hear you there Gunner! Lol
That needle moves over 2:1 when speaking on ssb.

Some Frequencies on the HAM are 3:1 but radio knocks it down into the 2's which is fine But I hear ya on low SWR's looks nicer ..... lol

Gotta punch my ticket on of these days! No test areas close to me...have to travel!

[Gunner357]

mine moves too more watts..... now if it a lot a different issue but just a couple values i wouldn't worry

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 42 seconds:

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

Im a perfectionist too but getting over the SWR gig

Yeah, hear you there Gunner! Lol
That needle moves over 2:1 when speaking on ssb.

Some Frequencies on the HAM are 3:1 but radio knocks it down into the 2's which is fine But I hear ya on low SWR's looks nicer ..... lol

Gotta punch my ticket on of these days! No test areas close to me...have to travel!

Do it remotely (online) I was going to until a slot opened about 40min from my house

[The DB]

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

You won't notice a difference in performance between 1:1 and 2:1 SWR. Peak performance is also rarely at the low SWR point anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Being a perfectionist with SWR gets you nothing, unless you have an amp that is pushing its transistors so far out of spec you have to have a perfect match or it will blow (I would call them defective amps, but people seem to love to run them...)

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

SWR is not measured on sideband. It is measured on AM, and is only accurate when you are using a dead key. Any modulation will throw the reading off.

With that SWR meter (and most), when you set the REF(erence), it is only accurate for that amount of power. When you modulate your transmitted signal's power level changes, but your REF(erence) setting is not changing with it, throwing the readings off.

They do make two needle SWR meters if you want one, these will be accurate even when modulating, or using SSB, but even then,they are rarely used when modulating. I haven't seen them much on the CB side, you can typically find them with ham radio gear, and even then most often built into antenna tuners. The reason said meters are beneficial in antenna tuners is you can tune and watch the SWR change, so you can find the best tune easily. How you use and read said meters is different than the one you have as they have no REF setting.

Now, for using an antenna tuner, that depends on your goals and setup. If you just want to talk on the CB band, an antenna tuner will actually be detrimental. However, if you have a ham radio license, and want to push your limits to the ham bands, an antenna tuner can extend the the tunable frequencies to neighboring ham bands. Some people have been able to push their A/99 and Imax antennas even to the 17 and some even to the 20 meter ham bands, but this comes at a cost, and when it comes to your transmitted signal, this cost is bigger than a lot of people realize. When it comes to antennas, you don't get anything for free. Every compromise has its price.

The main reason antenna tuners exist is to help ham radio operators use a single antenna across multiple ham bands. Its not the only way to achieve such a setup, but for many it is the easiest. There is no good reason to use an antenna tuner for single band operation, like CB radio, especially with an antenna like the Imax which has a tuning circuit built in. They also don't work well with coax, even the "almighty" LMR-400 that some swear by can not handle the signal between an antenna tuner and antenna very well if you have anything over 3:1 SWR, window line and ladder line quickly show their strengths here, even if they have their own drawbacks...


The DB

[cecil]

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

You won't notice a difference in performance between 1:1 and 2:1 SWR. Peak performance is also rarely at the low SWR point anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Being a perfectionist with SWR gets you nothing, unless you have an amp that is pushing its transistors so far out of spec you have to have a perfect match or it will blow (I would call them defective amps, but people seem to love to run them...)

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

SWR is not measured on sideband. It is measured on AM, and is only accurate when you are using a dead key. Any modulation will throw the reading off.

With that SWR meter (and most), when you set the REF(erence), it is only accurate for that amount of power. When you modulate your transmitted signal's power level changes, but your REF(erence) setting is not changing with it, throwing the readings off.

They do make two needle SWR meters if you want one, these will be accurate even when modulating, or using SSB, but even then,they are rarely used when modulating. I haven't seen them much on the CB side, you can typically find them with ham radio gear, and even then most often built into antenna tuners. The reason said meters are beneficial in antenna tuners is you can tune and watch the SWR change, so you can find the best tune easily. How you use and read said meters is different than the one you have as they have no REF setting.

Now, for using an antenna tuner, that depends on your goals and setup. If you just want to talk on the CB band, an antenna tuner will actually be detrimental. However, if you have a ham radio license, and want to push your limits to the ham bands, an antenna tuner can extend the the tunable frequencies to neighboring ham bands. Some people have been able to push their A/99 and Imax antennas even to the 17 and some even to the 20 meter ham bands, but this comes at a cost, and when it comes to your transmitted signal, this cost is bigger than a lot of people realize. When it comes to antennas, you don't get anything for free. Every compromise has its price.

The main reason antenna tuners exist is to help ham radio operators use a single antenna across multiple ham bands. Its not the only way to achieve such a setup, but for many it is the easiest. There is no good reason to use an antenna tuner for single band operation, like CB radio, especially with an antenna like the Imax which has a tuning circuit built in. They also don't work well with coax, even the "almighty" LMR-400 that some swear by can not handle the signal between an antenna tuner and antenna very well if you have anything over 3:1 SWR, window line and ladder line quickly show their strengths here, even if they have their own drawbacks...


The DB

Well thank you DB, much appreciated on the information regarding swr and antenna tuners. Once i have my tech.license, a tuner would be handy for 10m adjustments. I guess where I'm a 1.3:1 swr , I shouldn't have to worry about too much reflected power returning to the radio. Great info., Thanks!

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 6 minutes 18 seconds:

mine moves too more watts..... now if it a lot a different issue but just a couple values i wouldn't worry

---

We have merged posts.


Added in 5 minutes 42 seconds:

Why? 1:3 is fine?

I guess so, just looking for that perfect match. Im over thinking this...as always!

While we're talking about it, is it common to see the swr needle move forward while speaking on sideband (i have separate swr gauge that i can monitor, tc 3001-p. ?? THanks

Im a perfectionist too but getting over the SWR gig

Yeah, hear you there Gunner! Lol
That needle moves over 2:1 when speaking on ssb.

Some Frequencies on the HAM are 3:1 but radio knocks it down into the 2's which is fine But I hear ya on low SWR's looks nicer ..... lol

Gotta punch my ticket on of these days! No test areas close to me...have to travel!

Do it remotely (online) I was going to until a slot opened about 40min from my house

That's a possibility, online. I check that out. Nearest test site to me is well over hr. away.

[Gunner357]

I'm glad I didn't do it online because I met a bunch of great people there and was invite to their club.....

[cecil]

I'm glad I didn't do it online because I met a bunch of great people there and was invite to their club.....

That's definitely a plus, people in your area. Help your neighbor and they will help you. club invite...Nice!

[Gunner357]

I'm glad I didn't do it online because I met a bunch of great people there and was invite to their club.....

That's definitely a plus, people in your area. Help your neighbor and they will help you. club invite...Nice!

What really made me feel good when I was explaining my setup with the FT920 and Signalink with the End fed antenna and how I got up in the tree I had 5 guys listening to me that are experienced Operators (Gens) listening to a rookies ideas lol

[cecil]

I'm glad I didn't do it online because I met a bunch of great people there and was invite to their club.....

That's definitely a plus, people in your area. Help your neighbor and they will help you. club invite...Nice!

What really made me feel good when I was explaining my setup with the FT920 and Signalink with the End fed antenna and how I got up in the tree I had 5 guys listening to me that are experienced Operators (Gens) listening to a rookies ideas lol

That's cool, you got their attention..speaking the language!