Opening Clarifiers

[Windwalker]

Hi folks
I just wanted to know what other people think about clarifiers being opened.
First off is it true !! Can you really open a clarifier or it that just the way they work.
Let me explain !!! ( this is for ssb obviously )
If you are talking on a stock factory radio that has never been worked on then is the clarifier allready open. You can talk to someone and if you dont clarify the signal voice then the other person will often times tell you that you are off frequency. That means the clarifier is open allready from the factory.

Or could it be that opening a clarifier gives it more range of adjustment. Making it possible to travel further between channels. ???

Or do you folks think the clarifier only works on receive unless it is open. Then the radio would transmit on a set frequency !! And the receive would be a slightly different frequency.

My opinion is that a clarifier is allready open by nature straight from the factory !!!


WW1 is open for suggestions and comments

[443 Arizona]

factory radio is closed clarification on transmit, i think that is the rule on class D .
receive is also set the same, because thats where its meant to be used.
if you "open the clarifier" so that both Rx and Tx are sync'd, then you get a range of freq.s
and if you also have loose filters, then you get other signals(static too),(harmonics),
so you have to reach a satisfactory point of tuning and WAALLAAAA, your workin the magic and only others doing the same will be talking with you.
if your Rx and Tx are not sync'd then your only going to converse with a radio set the same.

[Windwalker]

Oh I understand your points. I suppose it is always closed from the factory making the clarifier knob half a VFO.

[MDYoungblood]

With so many CB’ers using ham equipment now, open or unlocked clarifiers are a mood point. If you looked back at old CB SSB radios (23 ch or even older crystal sets), the clarifiers tracked both TX and RX. The FCC had the clarifier on TX locked in 1974 because of the radios being able to transmit above and below the assigned frequency spectrum. I had a HyGain Utopia base back in the day capable of sliding 5 channels up or down from the dial frequency (channel).

3’s

Greg

[Windwalker]

WOW 5 channels is a lot to slide.

[MDYoungblood]

WOW 5 channels is a lot to slide.

Yep, and that was right out of the box!

3’s

Greg

[Windwalker]

Im happy if a radio can slide 3/4 of channel. That far can split the channel fully !! Half way up or go to the next channel and go half way down. Of course your frequency counter must be sensitive enough to read the small changes. I prefer a 6 digit counter.

[443 Arizona]

yea the old radio's are great ain't they,,, i have a tram that is wide open, it was the best, the rest of the circuitry did a fine job too, not just the clarifier. i got lucky and was able to buy it off an older veteran who was a radio wizard in the navy.

[Windwalker]

Sounds like a great radio to own

[De_Wildfire]

I have a President Washington that I got second hand just for CB. I don't like the open clairifier because the we are adjusting the clarifier back and forth and so with the other station. I have a TRAM mobile that has a locked clarifier. I don't have any problems. If you want to go in between channels on SSB, get a cheap ham all mode HF rig on the used market and save yourself the trouble. You can keep the transmit right on and use the RIT control if someone has a radio slightly off and make them sound normal.

[Windwalker]

I personally love to keep adjusting the clarifier. A radio that drifts that needs constant adjustment might do it more when it is cold. I think it keeps you on your toes to have to adjust it.

WW1

[443 Arizona]

i also like the "open" or " unlocked" version, especially on my base unit,
meaning the TX stays with the RX,
then when you are both off in lala land, it is pretty good,
you can avoid so much hash,
sorta becomes very private because your not on freq. and putting up with all the jabber, blabber and bull.
not all radios can be adjusted for "locked(Tx with Rx)" drifting, so then you end up constantly fiddling with the clarifier , thats alright, as long as your good at it.
i enjoy it, as you find out, the other operators have to be good at it too.
old radios are fun, they drift on their own,
then you really are in lala land add to that talking skip to another hemisphere and shazaam , you win a bingo card,
p.s. hey BOZ, do i get a popsicle for using the most smily's this morning?

[Windwalker]

443 I fullly agree with you.
I had a Siltronix 1011D and it would drift a lot.
Galaxy radios are also known to drift especially when they are cold.
If you dont unlock or open the clarifier what is the use in having an expensive radio.
Even within 11 meters people move to say 27.380 LSB to get away and reduce the number of people that could interfere with the Qso.
443 maybe a Sno cone not a popsicle !!

[Bozo]

The debate regarding the opening of CB radio clarifiers is a complex one. While some argue that it can lead to clearer communication, others believe it can cause interference and legal consequences.

Ultimately, it’s up to you to make an informed decision about whether or not to open your CB radio clarifier.

However, it’s important to remember that any modification to a CB radio should be approached with caution and an understanding of the potential legal implications.

[Windwalker]

Thats a good point Bozzozo
Citizens Band Radio Service ( CBRS ) The CB Radio spectrum is broken up into 40 channels with CB frequencies ranging from 26.965 to 27.405 MHz. Channels are generally spaced 10 KHz apart


That said I think any operator with a VFO or Unlocked or open clarifier does not see this frequency range in channels ! Channels to me is the fact that most CB Radios have 40 preset frequencies as a limitation. Some export radios have 80 channels preset as the mechanics and electrical properties of the radio can do it. 40 channels is to me just how the radio works and has nothing to do with frequency. A radio with a VFO dosent have channels generally speaking. An open or unlocked clarifier acts the same as a VFO so there is no such thing as a channel just the frequency. Some might say there are unlimited channels with a VFO radio.

Further a sloppy or cheap radio will use a large amount of bandwidth when transmitting. Not just on the set frequency. When you are on the preset frequency for channel 1 or 40 you will most likely be transmitting above and below the specified range even if just a little. The use of a linear amplifies this effect also. More power more bandwidth unless you have a high quality radio and linear with excellent filters.
Often times Ham operators will hang out on the edge of the band just where the lower operating class cant go. The lower class operator must stay away a certain distance so their bandwidth does not spill over into the other band.
Bleed over also is created. The use of too much power makes it worse but bandwidth also plays a role. If you have an open clarifier that function also works on AM not just SSB. I remember back in the day I was in a shoot out on AM and changed my frequency to 27.223. That allowed my radio to be heard even if the other radio was bigger than mine. I slid under so to speak. That small amount of frequency change on AM will not make you sound off frequency unless the other operator has a high quality radio. I got a good laugh out of that.

My vote is to always open the clarifier. Constant adjustment is fun and in my opinion part of being an operator. I think you can make more contacts by frequency rather than preset channel frequencies.
Im tired of typing and going blind so I will stop now and head over to Bozo's house for a snack...

WW1

[Bozo]

Good thing I didn't tell him I moved....

[Windwalker]

Good thing I didn't tell him I moved....

I will triangulate your location so get the snacks ready.
Sno Cones will do !!!

[295 antenna]

Correct me if I'm wrong but by opening the clarifier, your allowing the transmit to move with the recieve. But most cb radios will not allow the transmit and receive to move independently of each other and unless you have a fine and coarse. Not to many cbers in my area want to transmit on one frequency and recieve on another. If you cannot do that. Holding multiple conversations is difficult at best.

[Windwalker]

Correct me if I'm wrong but by opening the clarifier, your allowing the transmit to move with the recieve. But most cb radios will not allow the transmit and receive to move independently of each other and unless you have a fine and coarse. Not to many cbers in my area want to transmit on one frequency and recieve on another. If you cannot do that. Holding multiple conversations is difficult at best.

You are correct it allows the transmit and receive to work together. Mostly a radio with a clarifier fine and or course has SSB. Although some cb radios with fm have it.
To communicate on 2 different frequencies you are way more secure from other people hearing what you say. Someone may pick up 1 frequency but not both and it would be as if you were talking to nobody. CB radios are simplex OR (I talk You talk.) 1 frequency is used for both receive and transmit and only 1 at a time. Duplex is the use of 2 frequencies for radios that are designed to talk that way. Both operators can talk and be heard at the same time like a regular conversation. Duplex is common to marine use but not specifically. I have never seen or heard of a Duplex CB Radio.
Clarifiers go by different names. Cobra had voice lock on the popular 148 model. RIT ( usually with arrows left and right ) VFO for better radios and so on. Most cb radio or 10 meter radio have clarifiers with a limited travel. It can split a channel up pretty good but it cant go 2 or 3 channels wide. Unless you have a radio like Blood had where in the clarifier traveled that far.
In my opinion superheterodyne and image rejection are coming into play in this thread.

CB radios are set up to have fair to poor image rejection so you can hear weak signals. That often times includes unwanted signals and interference. We have all seen the FCC stickers about unwanted signals and interference. That said a regular cb radio on am would also pick up a signal from say 27.185, .184, .183 and more depending on the filters and sensitivity. They are also meant to reject signals from 4 watt radios. If the radio was so tight that it would only pick up say 27.185 then you would lose a lot of signals. The millions of radios out there are not all on frequency so it has to have a wideband receive up to a point. Remember they only expect to reject 4 watt radios and they expect most radios to be close to the right frequency.
superheterodyne in a nutshell is when a radio receives 2 or more signals. Most cb radios will just let it fly and you might not hear any given signal clearly unless one is stronger or closer. Good quality or Superhet radios have an internally generated local oscillator. This takes both or multiple signals and changes the frequency to a intermediate standard so it can filter the signals with a set frequency filter. Again 4 watts. The effect of multiple signals is more bandwidth. If you have 1 sweet 16 the band width would be much less than if you had 2, 3 or more. If you were running 10 sweet 16 linears the bandwidth would be so wide you would hear them on many channels and not just because of the high power. The bandwidht would be so much without high image rejection you would hear it even if not clearly. Even with high quality image rejection it would be hard to clean up such a strong signal anyway.

Clearly there is much more but most cb or 10 meter radios do not have all this fancy stuff so most of this we can throw out the window. It does stand to say that without all the bells and whistles the bigger radio wins in the cb world. A sweet 16 linear is like a punch in the face. It has no filters to speak of and only 1 power level. (HIGH ) That makes for huge bandwidth and perfect for competition use or shoot outs.
I must also add that some of this applies to a radio with a mechanical knob for the channel selector and some of it with a digital channel selection.
Im open to arguments now !!

WW1

[295 antenna]

The only problem I see is when you clarify someone's radio to your recieve and you also change the transmit. That could make your radio off to other radios. I love sideband because it feels more like radio to me having to clarify signals.

[Windwalker]

The only problem I see is when you clarify someone's radio to your recieve and you also change the transmit. That could make your radio off to other radios. I love sideband because it feels more like radio to me having to clarify signals.

Yes I love to talk sideband.
You do change the frequency when you clarify the signal but others have to do the same. A 6 digit frequency counter versus a 5 digit counter is more sensitive and accurate. The more digits the higher the accuracy. Now imagine this...
If you had to clarify your home stereo to listen to music you would probably never get it to where it is supposed to be. It might sound ok but the actual tones would be off even if just by a bit. The music radio in my 4 wheeler is digital and has strong signal rejection. If you want station 95.5 it will not play it at 95.6 because it is so sharp or tight even though the radio station is putting out super big watts. Compare that to a cb where you would hear both frequencies and more due to wide bandwidth receive. So it is never perfect and everybody has to adjust for clarifier use if you have one.
Use of a mechanical knob to tune a radio compared to a digital radio is way different. Old school stereo receivers had knob tuning with a band of numbers to give you an approximate idea of what frequency you were on. Sometimes even with a signal/power meter. That type of tuning will most likely hear more of a wide band receive than a digital one.

[295 antenna]

That's why I like my export radios because they have a VFO mode also and with menu driven controls I can change clarifier modes depending on my mood lol

[Windwalker]

That's why I like my export radios because they have a VFO mode also and with menu driven controls I can change clarifier modes depending on my mood lol

That sounds great. You can operate how you want too. I hope you are in a good mood as I m sure you are when you talk SSB overseas !!!

---

Post Merge Complete

Added 38 minutes 21 seconds after previous.
As a quick note ...
It is common for a Duplex user to operate by VOX and not PTT
Usually in a quiet room or area due to this function.

[295 antenna]

Tried vox years ago but like you said conditions in the room must be right. Just not a big fan

[Windwalker]

Tried vox years ago but like you said conditions in the room must be right. Just not a big fan

Yes conditions must be right. But to operate Duplex you cant be squeezing the mic all the time nor the other person. I mean you could but it would be a lot of work and defeat the purpose.
What I have described here is full duplex there is also half duplex having to switch between transmit and receive. That is also a lot of work especially if you also have to constantly clarify the signal.