10 meter radios- legal?

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi,

It is illegal to sell or manufacture non-type accepted radios of any kind on a commercial basis. If you possess a Ham ticket you are allowed to operate a radio, of any type on any band, as long as you comply with the restrictions and limitation within that band, this would include CB.

If you do not have a Ham license your 10 meter radio is subject to be seized whether it is sitting in your closet or on your bench. Just as an external amp can be seized, so can a non-type accepted radio. What "10 meter radios" are illegal? Besides not being type-accepted, if they have echoes, and other toys, like the 99V that are not legal for use on any band.

If you have a non-type accepted 10 meter radio and you have a Ham license, then you may use them on CB as long as you do not exceed 4 watts carrier and 12 watts peak power.

Echo is a no-no, but the Roger beep is perfectly legal on CB and Ham. Can a cop take your radio? Yes, never argue with a man in possession of a gun......Cop or not. In fact, never be in a room with a loaded gun unless you are holding it.

Respectfully

[drdx]

Hi,

It is illegal to sell or manufacture non-type accepted radios of any kind on a commercial basis. If you possess a Ham ticket you are allowed to operate a radio, of any type on any band, as long as you comply with the restrictions and limitation within that band, this would include CB.

If you do not have a Ham license your 10 meter radio is subject to be seized whether it is sitting in your closet or on your bench. Just as an external amp can be seized, so can a non-type accepted radio. What "10 meter radios" are illegal? Besides not being type-accepted, if they have echoes, and other toys, like the 99V that are not legal for use on any band.

If you have a non-type accepted 10 meter radio and you have a Ham license, then you may use them on CB as long as you do not exceed 4 watts carrier and 12 watts peak power.

Echo is a no-no, but the Roger beep is perfectly legal on CB and Ham. Can a cop take your radio? Yes, never argue with a man in possession of a gun......Cop or not. In fact, never be in a room with a loaded gun unless you are holding it.

Respectfully

See, I thought it was not legal to use a ham rig or other non type accepted rig on cb, ham operator or not. So, does this mean I can use my hf rig, cranked back to 4 watts or less, on cb? I thought the operation of a non type accepted radio by a ham on the ham bands was permitted, as in home brew stuff with cb being subject to its own part 95 subpart D or whatever it is in the rule book. On cb I thought the same rules applied whether you were licensed or not and that you were to only use type accepted cb transmitters on cb. Any thoughts on that, since it sounds like you're more familiar with the rules than most for sure. Thanks in advance.

-drdx

[TaterR]

The rule is simple as this:
You can use anything on the amateur bands as long as you conform to "good amateur practice" (your signal is pure) and you are licensed.
NOTHING can be used on another radio services unless the rig is "certificated" (new name for Type-Accepted) for that radio service or band.

That's all there is to it folks.

[Capndave]

Yea there are som pretty kool people who dont mind you talking on 10 meter but then there are the anal holier than thou jerks who will turn you in.But ,buy the study guide and go take the test,I took one online and got a fifty.I know if I read the book I could ace it without a problem.Remember,General Lee with the topgun modules.

[Capndave]

That is basically the same form letter I got ,two weeks later,a fellow was at my front door to inspect my gear.

[drdx]

A general lee would be USELESS on 10 meters if you tried to use it as a real ham radio. It doesn't have sideband and the AM phone portion is way up on 29 mhz and requires the right license. There are a lot of cool folks up there that are licensed and for them to talk to an unlicensed station is illegal for them I believe unless of course it is an emergency situation. I could be wrong, but once they realize they're talking to a bootleg station, I think they're supposed to stop.

-drdx

[Night Crawler]

If you have a non-type accepted 10 meter radio and you have a Ham license, then you may use them on CB as long as you do not exceed 4 watts carrier and 12 watts peak power.

That's not true any radio that's non-type accepted whether you hold a Ham License or not is not allowed on the 11 meter Citizens Band in the US even if you don't exceed 4 watts or 12 watts pep.

[jwalker48]

A licensed station is NOT to knowingly communicate with an unlicenced station! HE himself can get a FINE and lose his license for it. He may NOT use an amateur transceiver on CB. Why? Because ALL radios for CB must be "certificated" for that use. A ham may NOT use his ham rig on CB. Period! He must use an FCC-approved
CB radio just like everybody else. He may use one of the "10 Meter" radios ON the ham bands--tho I don't know why he would want to since it has many restrictions that hamper the full access to the band. He may NOT use a "10 Meter" radio ON CB because, again, it is NOT certified for that use.

Regardless of one's opinion of jsut picking up a mike and talking on any band one chooses, or whether some people may think it's "cool", I would NOT be chatting on any band for which you have no license! Yes, like a "key" to a house, you must have it for access to the house, and you MUST have the license, which equals "permission" to operate on any frequency according to the laws of the United States! And, yes, MANY hams WILL turn you in so fast it will make your head spin round and round!!!! The bottom line is, right and wrong. Just like you must not enter someone's property without permission, you must not enter 10 Meters
without permission (license)! To do so invites fines of up to $10,000, and there are quite a few of those! Sure, it sounds harsh, and some of us can't see why we have to abide by "laws", but it is simply the way it IS! You might get away with bootlegging 10 Meters for awhile, but is the gamble WORTH it? What if somebody DOES turn you in and you are holding a $10,000 FINE letter in your hand? I just don't see HOW the risk is worth it.

IF you like your 10 Meter radio, fine! Use it on 11 Meters! Not likely you'll have trouble unless you splatter!

jwalker

[Falcon99V]

For "MANY" years I have been using a 10 meter radio instead of a 11 meter. I think it sounds better and more power without the adittional equipment. Have one in the mobile and also have a base unit in the house. Never had a problem. One thing is I also don't draw attention to myself like some individuals on the radio in NE corner of the Buckeye!

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi Night Crawler

A Licensed ham operator may use a non type accepted radio on the CB band as long as the Ham operator is licensed and is complying with the rules and limitations of the CB Band. No more than 4 watts carrier and a peak power of 12 watts is allowed. It is up to the Ham operator to make sure he or she is within compliance.

It is illegal for a person without a Ham license to operate a non-type accepted radio, even if it is being used within the compliance of 4 watts carrier and 12 watts peak for CB. It is the commercial sale of the exports that is illegal, but as a Ham operator you may use an export or non-type accepted radio for Ham bands as long as you are within the guidelines of the respective Ham bands.

Ham operators are allowed to build and modify any radio equipment under an "experimental station" exemption as long as the Ham operator is within compliance of the rules and limitations of the band that he or she is using. The rule of thumb is only one experimental station is to be used at a time. The sale of an experimental station to anyone other than a Ham operator is not legal. Building radios on a commercial basis is unauthorized. A Ham operator may possess one 10 meter amplifier at a time per station. If you do not have a Ham license then just the possession of the amp would be illegal whether it is in your closet or on your bench.

Ham operators may build, possess and use export radios on CB if it is on an experimental basis and is not being manufactured for commercial sale, and the Ham operator is within compliance of the use on CB radio. A Ham ticket is a very powerful license. It allows one to have a scanner in their vehicle even in those jurisdictions where scanners are not allowed in vehicles by local ordinances.

I hold an FCC license and may work on any radio legally as long as I do not alter the radio to operate illegally or out of compliance. I may transmit on anything from Marine radios to police radios under the owners license and consent. I may contact the Coast Guard on channel 16 and get a radio check as long as I state who I am, where I am and what I want. The only exception is I may repair Ham radios using a Dummy load, but even with an FCC repair license, I may not make over the air communication, even for a radio check. unless I also possess a Ham ticket.

Ham operators may use any radio on CB as long as it is in compliance within the limitations of 4 watts carrier and 12 watts peak power. No ham operator using any radio is allowed to exceed these limitations, licensed or not. As I stated a Ham ticket is a powerful license. One must have a Ham ticket to operate a M.A.R.S station. the only exception is a commanding officer, or his designated representative, in the military may use the Military Affiliated Radio Service to communicate with other MARS stations and Ham operators. They are the only ones that do not need a Ham license to do so.

Getting a Ham license is much easier now that the code has been dropped as a requirement. I had to learn code when I got my Ham ticket. I don't think that requirement should have been dropped, but they had to do something because the Cell Phone was killing Ham radio. I recommend to any driver or operator to get a Ham license. No official can touch you or your equipment as long as you have a Ham license. This includes scanners and any amp or home made radio, unless it can be proven that you are operating out of compliance.

Respectfully.

[Night Crawler]

Hi Night Crawler

A Licensed ham operator may use a non type accepted radio on the CB band as long as the Ham operator is licensed and is complying with the rules and limitations of the CB Band. No more than 4 watts carrier and a peak power of 12 watts is allowed. It is up to the Ham operator to make sure he or she is within compliance.

That's not true not on 11 meters show me that in writing.

I hold an FCC license and may work on any radio legally as long as I do not alter the radio to operate illegally or out of compliance.

I have a GROL too.

Getting a Ham license is much easier now that the code has been dropped as a requirement. I had to learn code when I got my Ham ticket.

I know I've been licensed for over 30 years.

[TaterR]

Hi Night Crawler

A Licensed ham operator may use a non type accepted radio on the CB band as long as the Ham operator is licensed and is complying with the rules and limitations of the CB Band. No more than 4 watts carrier and a peak power of 12 watts is allowed. It is up to the Ham operator to make sure he or she is within compliance.

That is incorrect and misinformation. An amateur cannot comply with the rules and limitations of the CB band with an export radio. It is not possible.

The rule is simple as this:
You can use anything on the amateur bands as long as you conform to "good amateur practice" (your signal is pure) and you are licensed.
NOTHING can be used on another radio services unless the rig is "certificated" (new name for Type-Accepted) for that radio service or band.

That's all there is to it folks.

CB is regulated by Part 95. Amateur radio is regulated by Part 97.
You can use a toaster to communicate on Part 97 if you can make it operate pure.
CB can only use "certificated" equipment. Therefore, if you have an export radio and turn it down to 4watts AM/ 12watts SSB you still cannot be legal because the radio has not been "certificated" for Part 95 operation. Same goes for your Yeasu, Kenwood, Icom, etc.

My post quoted above is all there is to the rule(s).

['Doc]

Sorry 'TheCBDoctor', I have to disagree with at least part of your last post. An amateur radio license only pertains to the amateur radio service, has nothing to do with, or gives any privileges in the CB service. That ham has to comply with the same rules and regulations as any CB 'er does when he's on the CB.
To the best of my knowledge, there's is only one commercial service that requires that a technician hold a commercial license, and a particular endorsement on that license, to be able to work on that service's equipment. That particular bit of information is something like 10 - 15 years out of date. I haven't taken a commercial license test in at least that long.
- 'Doc

And completely off-topic. The examiner for the last commercial license I took really deserved a close examination! She definitely didn't look like one'a them bowtied, flat-topped, guys in the little green room in Dallas! Seriously thought about flunking the thing so I could go back and see her again. She probably wouldn't have been working that day, the way my luck runs...

[Night Crawler]

To the best of my knowledge, there's is only one commercial service that requires that a technician hold a commercial license
- 'Doc

Aircraft Communications.

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi Night Crawler

The purpose of allocating certain portions of the radio spectrum for civilian use is in the event of an emergency. The FCC has gone out of its way to make sure that Ham operators will always be around. That is why they simplified the tests, and have given broad powers to Ham operators, and limitations to even those with FCC licenses, to ensure that Ham radio will always be a special backup to other radio services.

You have not disagreed with me on any of the things I have stated except for the use of CB by a Ham operator using anything other than a type accepted CB radio.

Ham operators can use scanners despite local laws limiting their use. Ham operators are not limited to the height restriction of antennas imposed on CB radio of 60 feet, except for airports. Hams may possess amplifiers, work on their own equipment, and even build their own radios. I have not read anywhere, in the section regarding Ham radio, a limitation on using Ham equipment for CB radio, as long as you are operating within the limitations of the CB Band.

I have read that no one is allowed to use anything but a type accepted CB radio for the CB Band. It does not specify that Hams are allowed to be the exception, but it does not disqualify them under the Ham section of the FCC regulations that they may not use their Ham equipment on CB, except to say that it is the responsibility of the Ham operator to make sure they are complying with the restriction and limitations of the use of the radio spectrum.

Part 95 does limit what equipment the public may use for CB radio. Under the rules for Ham operators there is no mention that Ham equipment can not be used for CB radio except to say that it is the responsibility of a Ham operator to comply with the rules and regulations regarding the proper use of the radio spectrum. It does not specifically state one way or another if a Ham operator may use his or her equipment for CB. If your antenna is more than 60 feet from the ground or more than 20 feet above the tallest part of a structure, then I would say you may not transmit on the CB band because you are not in compliance.

I stated that a Ham Ticket is a powerful license to possess. It protects you from having a non-type accepted radio confiscated from your home or in your vehicle. If you are using it for CB and your carrier is 4 watts and your peak power is no more than 12 watts who will bother you? Chances are the guy down the street is operating his voided type accepted CB radio because it was modified. His voided type accepted CB is exceeding the power limitations, you are within those limitations. If the authorities come to your door you will keep your equipment because you possess a Ham license; the guy down the street will not.

In a dire emergency a Ham operator may exceed any limitations and restrictions on the Ham operator' privileges. Ham clubs are the eyes and "Ears" of the FCC. A civilian may complain to the FCC about interference and will get very little help. I always suggest to a person that is having that problem to go to the local Ham club and let them do the foot work and pass on the paperwork to the FCC. The FCC will take action if the complaint is from an Amateur Radio Club every single time.

You and I have the same experience and time in radio service. I do not disagree with you. In fact, you have not disagreed with me on any of the points I have made except the part that no person shall use anything but a type accepted CB radio. I ask only that you go to the section governing the rules for Ham operators and show me where it says that Ham operators may not use Ham equipment on the CB Band. It only states that Ham operators must comply with the rules and limitations of the radio spectrum except in times of dire emergencies. No mention of CB is in that section, nor is there anything that says Hams are allowed to exceed the limitations imposed on any radio band except in dire emergencies. I guess it is left up to interpretation.

When in doubt get a Ham ticket. A GROL (FCC License) is also a good thing to have. As a Ham operator I can build my own CB radio and use it as long as I am not manufacturing the radio for commercial sales or use; it must also comply with the rules governing CB radio.

Respectfully,

[drdx]

I think the same part 95/ cb rules apply to operation by any operator on the cb band, ham or not. I don't think the 2 sets of rules overlap in either direction. In other words, I don't think hams have any special operating privileges, including a non type accepted equipment pass on cb. In my opinion, what the ham rules say in no way apply to CB regarding this topic. I can't find anything the ham rules that say hams can 't rob banks but I don't plan on doing it just because they left that part out. I'm a ham and if you're really into the hobby I urge all to get ticketed, as mentioned above, as it does make you have a louder voice and look better in interference issues unless you're just blatently breaking the rules.


-drdx

[TaterR]

Again, if I'm not on ignore.

Part 95 regulates Citizens Band. To operate a station on the Citizens Band you must comply with the rules within. Having an amateur radio license makes no difference.

I have read that no one is allowed to use anything but a type accepted CB radio for the CB Band. It does not specify that Hams are allowed to be the exception, but it does not disqualify them under the Ham section of the FCC regulations that they may not use their Ham equipment on CB, except to say that it is the responsibility of the Ham operator to make sure they are complying with the restriction and limitations of the use of the radio spectrum.

Your first sentence there sums it up. Part 97 doesn't say anything about Part 95. If you want to operate in the Citizens Band, then you go by the Part 95 rules.

[Night Crawler]

In a dire emergency a Ham operator may exceed any limitations and restrictions

That's the Only Time a Ham Operator would be able to use non- type accepted equipment on 11 meters.

[De_Wildfire]

You don't want to **Censored** off the wrong people up on 10 meters. The hams do the dirty work for the F.C. C and turn in addresses, license numbers and a whole lot more. Part of the fun in the hobby is direction finding. With Ham radio they do a lot of experimenting and when it comes to foxhunting, it is as serious as hunting deer. The next time the hams have the event called "Field Day" for the general public at state parks, ect. ect for emergency communication practice where they contact hams all over the country/world, go to one and see how easy it is for them to take all their equipment on the road for fun. You may come out of with your ticket because some of them give ham tests right there on the spot. At that point you'll be legal to operate on 10 meters and not have to worry about anything.

[Night Crawler]

Again, if I'm not on ignore.

Your not being ignored I read everything you wrote and you brought up a lot of good points I didn't think of.

[Circuit Breaker]

As I understand it, the only radios allowed to be used on 11 meters are those that are type accepted. It doesn't matter if the person operating the equipment is a licensed amateur using their equipment with the power turned down or not. There are two things that make it illegal to use an amateur radio on CB: 1) Higher power output and 2) VFO and the ability to vary the transmit frequency.

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi Guys,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I will bet there is not one person on this forum that has a type accepted radio that has not voided the type acceptance of their CB radio. If anyone here has a CB radio that has not been modified, then I have dry swamp land in Florida for sale

On CB no one may knowingly have their CB's Transmitter altered in any way. On Ham it is the responsibility of the Ham operator to make sure that their equipment is in compliance when operating on any Ham Band. Ham operators may modify and repair their own equipment. Part 95 does specifically mention 10 meter amps and alterations. Part 97 does not mention CB at all. Part 97 does not mention Left Handed Cigarettes so I guess I should not smoke them.

On another matter, a FCC or GROL is required for any work done to Aircraft radios (You also need a A+P license). Radios that are used for hire, such as, taxis' and trains. Any transmitter that exceeds 1,500 watts, and any SSB international marine radio. I am sure there are a few other specific circumstances that I may have left out.

Is it possible that many on this forum do not like Ham operators because no one will break their chops for using their Ham equipment on CB within the CB band limitations. I have had experience with both 10 and 11 meters and there are great people on both bands and some AAA-Holes as well. I like the CB band because of one word......... Freedom. When the day comes and the government shuts down cell phones, the Internet and GPS it will be the Ham and the CB band that will get the word out. It will happen here one day. Anyone familiar with the Smart Grid? It is coming to a neighbor near you, and then in your neighborhood.

There will be a crisis and with the flick of a switch the only voices that will be heard will be on CB. I am sure that Ham will be ordered shut down just as it was during WW II. I don't want to sound paranoid, but just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. It is time for me to go out and have a Left Handed Cigarette break.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste" President Obama's Chief of Staff. Hold on to your guns and microphones, we will need them.

[Circuit Breaker]

Hi Guys,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I will bet there is not one person on this forum that has a type accepted radio that has not voided the type acceptance of their CB radio. If anyone here has a CB radio that has not been modified, then I have dry swamp land in Florida for sale

I have a Grant XL that is completely virgin. Never opened. I have a Cobra 148GTL also virgin, never opened. Both were made in the Philippines. I have a Cobra 138XLR that, as far as I can tell, has not been modified. It was made in Japan. So, how many acres of swamp land are we talking about? I'll admit though, that I have owned radios in the past that the type acceptance was voided on and I own to HR2510s that work on 11 meters. But whether someone voided their type acceptance wasn't the issue.

Is it possible that many on this forum do not like Ham operators because no one will break their chops for using their Ham equipment on CB within the CB band limitations. I have had experience with both 10 and 11 meters and there are great people on both bands and some AAA-Holes as well. I like the CB band because of one word......... Freedom. When the day comes and the government shuts down cell phones, the Internet and GPS it will be the Ham and the CB band that will get the word out. It will happen here one day. Anyone familiar with the Smart Grid? It is coming to a neighbor near you, and then in your neighborhood.

I've gotten on amateur radio operators who use their amateur gear on CB...and I'm licensed. The reason I've gotten on them is because I know they bust the chops of CB operators for not following the rules. They're big hypocrites if they get on CB operators for running illegal equipment when they're breaking the rules themselves. And I simply point that out to them. That said, why, exactly, would the government shut down cell phones or the Internet? GPS I can see, although I doubt they would do it. But who knows?

There will be a crisis and with the flick of a switch the only voices that will be heard will be on CB. I am sure that Ham will be ordered shut down just as it was during WW II. I don't want to sound paranoid, but just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. It is time for me to go out and have a Left Handed Cigarette break.

For that matter, the government could tell CBers to stop operating as well. They could easily say that 27MHz operation is illegal and move the band to 400MHz. Granted, it would be difficult. But they could do it.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste" President Obama's Chief of Staff. Hold on to your guns and microphones, we will need them.[/quote]

[madsage]

All good stuff, lots of good input from everybody.

I hope this might inspire some to get their tech licenses, its really easy and comes with lots of benefeits.
Dont worry it wont turn you into a snob. lol And all those old snob ham operators with elitism issues are almost gone.
I think they are more worried about taking their geritol and what day of the week corrisponds with their meds box mostly, now.

God bless em all, but times have and are still changing. Its up to us to carry this hobby though to the next generation.
Or it goes to the side with the 8track tape player. Also if we dont use the bands we lose them! I see way more vigor and ambition with the 11meter crowd keeping ametuer radio alive,

I enjoy my privlidges as a tech, dont get me wrong. But if i want to talk freely I still turn on the citizens band.
Infact I spend way more time on 11meter than any other band still, so its not like anything changed, I just expanded my radio operation ability.

Also, it does afford me the right to own additional equiptment without the threat of a single operating intent. which maybe deemed illegal.


933 Arizona

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi Circuit Breaker

How many acres do you want? I guarantee it will be dry. I do come across radios that have not been modified and are in compliance. I bench an average of 1,000 radios a year, if not more. I too have found 3 a year that are legal.

I get the elitist attitude from Ham operators on a regular basis. Unless, they tell you what equipment they are running, how would you know that it isn't a legal CB? You would not know if they are running 4 watts dead key and 12 watts peak on a Yeasu. If they are exceeding that output and their antenna is higher than 60 feet then they are not legal.

Why would the government shut down communications? Did you know that the President just signed a law recently that would allow the President to shut down the Internet. I love my country and have been a registered Republican for 36 years. I was liberal as a young man but have been conservative for the past 25 years. I am sorry to say I no longer trust my government or either party. I trust only the "People"

You can never shut down CB radio. It is impossible to shut down free speech. The genie has already been let out of the bottle. You can shut down Ham because all Ham operators are licensed. No one can keep track of who owns a CB. They can confiscate registered guns but not the ones that are not registered. CB is the outlaw band and thank God it is.

Respectfully,