What coax should I use?

[Runaway]

I just received the Antron-99 for my base. A friend told me I need to use the big coax but I thought about using LMR400. I don't know that I need LMR400 because all I am running is a TS-350 and a Connex 3300hp. I have seen the big coax before but I cannot remember what it is called. Need advice on this and some good places to order from. Maybe some links.

[slydog]

I just received the Antron-99 for my base. A friend told me I need to use the big coax but I thought about using LMR400. I don't know that I need LMR400 because all I am running is a TS-350 and a Connex 3300hp. I have seen the big coax before but I cannot remember what it is called. Need advice on this and some good places to order from. Maybe some links.

RG-8U is more than enough for a Texas Star 350. If you plan on running 1500 watts or more I would go with RG-213.
The gain you get by running double shield coax isn't worth the price difference in your application. RG-8 and RG-213 have 95% shield.

[drdx]

How long is the run of coax from your equipment to the antenna base? That will help guide you to what you need. The longer the run, the bigger the difference the cable quality will make, regardless of the power. Remember, the coax will also determine your receive, and the better the coax, the lower the loss will be, resulting in better receive and transmit. In that respect, some say that higher quality coax is more important in low power setups, where every watt is a greater percentage of the total, as opposed to a high power setup, where a loss of a few watts on transmit may not matter to you. A few watts on a setup with no amplifier means a lot if you are losing them in cable loss. Some rate cable need by what will or will not take the power rating, but you really need to be concerned with it's overall performance. -drdx

[Doughboy]

LMR400 maybe over kill be if you plan on upgrading your radio and amp it is money well spent....just my 2 cent
Or like slydog said RG213 would be a good choice too.

Doughboy in the Carolina's readin da mail............

[ringer]

The minimum radius bend of the rd213 is a lot tighter than LMR400

[ringer]

The minimum radius bend of the rd213 is a lot tighter than LMR400

I have that backwards.

[drdx]

That depends on which LMR400 you get, but good point. The flex is friendlier to route for sure, but again, the coax choice may be determined by the run length. For less than a 100ft run, you may not tell much difference if any between decent quality coaxes, but the shielding could come into play in terms of interference prevention. Maybe you have no neighbors, so it may not matter much, but neighbors or not, no one likes to key up and have to reboot your wireless router every time. I kick mine offline with 100 watts in the driveway, let alone more. You only need the coax once, so spend the extra few bucks and get something that you can be proud of and that will be good enough for future upgrades, that being power or whatever. Again, we're talking transmit and loss prevention here. Coax doesn't have gain per say, but any loss you can prevent comes back to you in the form of performance, or if you want to call it that, "gain", same result. -drdx

[King Mudduck]

Check this out, it will answer all your questions as to what coax to use.

[Please login or register to view this link]

[TwentyTwo-Zero]

100 feet of coax at 27MHz & 1:1 SWR:

Belden 8267 (RG213) Power in = 300w Power out = 235.83 Loss = 1.045dB

Times Microwave LMR400 Power in = 300w Power out = 259.336 Loss = .633

For the minimal difference in price, go with the LMR400. :wink:

[Runaway]

Thanks for all the come-backs Guys...I only need a 50 FT run of cable so its just a matter of making up my mind now and finding a good place to order from...Thanks everyone!!!

[Black Lightning]

Thanks for all the come-backs Guys...I only need a 50 FT run of cable so its just a matter of making up my mind now and finding a good place to order from...Thanks everyone!!!

I have to second the TMS LMR-400 coax. I run 50' of it for my base and it's great stuff. It's a little hard to bend, so it's suggested for a permanent (more or less) setup, at least to an amp. On the input side of the amp, I run an RG8 jumper for maneuverability.

[pipsqueek]

A 50' run eh. OK, here's what to do. Forget the "big" stuff. We're on 27 MHz, an hf band.
For a short run and 300pep watts out, RG-8X (the small stuff) is very sufficient. HF isn't lossy as apposed to vhf, uhf. If you had a long run I'd suggest otherwise. But for now get 60 ft rg8x and make your connections (don't forget to buy the reducers). Latter on when you want to get that antenna "up there", and the run becomes longer, buy "big stuff". You'll then have 60ft of rg8x to cut up into spaghetti for station patch cords. No $$$ wasted.
pips

[Black Lightning]

A 50' run eh. OK, here's what to do. Forget the "big" stuff. We're on 27 MHz, an hf band.
For a short run and 300pep watts out, RG-8X (the small stuff) is very sufficient. HF isn't lossy as apposed to vhf, uhf. If you had a long run I'd suggest otherwise. But for now get 60 ft rg8x and make your connections (don't forget to buy the reducers). Latter on when you want to get that antenna "up there", and the run becomes longer, buy "big stuff". You'll then have 60ft of rg8x to cut up into spaghetti for station patch cords. No $$$ wasted.
pips

I actually had a 60' run of Belden RG8X before I got the LMR and there was a difference on the receive end. You're right in most cases a 50' run of LMR-400 is overkill, but 5 extra HP on an 850HP NASCAR engine could mean the difference between a top-10 and a win.

[pipsqueek]

Your analogy is a ridiculous supposition. RF vs HP??????

Apples and oranges.

He'll see no difference between the two. Like the guy who has a favorite fishing lure, he uses it all the time, and he swears it works better....of course, he uses it ALL THE TIME, as you do now with the FAT stuff.

Just trying to save him some $$$. You know as well as I, the antenna won't stay at that 50'run area. We've all been there. Right????.

Hey the rg8x will serve it's purpose just fine . Later an upgrade will happen and the rg8x will still be woiking as patch cords......don't ya think.

[Black Lightning]

Your analogy is a ridiculous supposition. RF vs HP??????

Apples and oranges.

He'll see no difference between the two. Like the guy who has a favorite fishing lure, he uses it all the time, and he swears it works better....of course, he uses it ALL THE TIME, as you do now with the FAT stuff.

Just trying to save him some $$$. You know as well as I, the antenna won't stay at that 50'run area. We've all been there. Right????.

Hey the rg8x will serve it's purpose just fine . Later an upgrade will happen and the rg8x will still be woiking as patch cords......don't ya think.

Pipsqueak,

A 60' run of Belden RG8X is going to have .931 dB loss. Radio Shack RG8X - 1.024dB loss! A 50' run of LMR-400 is going to have a .316 dB loss. It doesn't sound like much but on the receive end, it's the difference between being able to hear someone at the noise threshhold and not being able to hear them because they're below the noise threshhold.

Sure he can run the RG8X now if he wishes. It will work for him fine. In my opinion, the more people put into their station, the more enjoyment they get out of it. I do most of my communication on sideband, so that .6dB loss is a big deal to me.

Sure, others aren't going to notice a real difference on his transmit with one vs. the other. Transmit isn't everything.

Now, if he wants to run power, that RG8X is going to limit him much more so than the LMR-400 and remember, as the power increases, so does the loss. At a point, the loss is great enough to cause noticeable heat on the coax.

Some of us settle for mediocrity, as long as it works. Others of us like to push our equipment for what we believe it should be and go for the gold to begin with. I've always been a push-it-to-the-limit guy with anything I do - from computers to cars to my radio equipment. I'm just like that, always have been.

If you like RG8X, more power to you. I prefer better stuff. I've used both. I know what both do.

[pipsqueek]

Horsefeathers. He won't see or hear a difference. Been here done that many times over.

By your way of thinking (only the best will do), why not just suggest lmr600, or hardline, better yet get you some broadcast type forced-dried air cable. HA. there will be less loss with each of those too.

The length he intends to run with the minuscule 300 watts out will work just fine with the rg8x (I didn't mention R.S.). As with everything, go with high quality components. I wouldn't even use the new Jetstream brand.

You say I like rg8x....yea, I like it for what it is. I use other stuff too and had done extensive comparisons in the past from DC to daylight. I'm just offering my suggestions based on what I know. For that run there won't be any appreciable difference tx/rx.

There.

[slydog]

Your analogy is a ridiculous supposition. RF vs HP??????

Apples and oranges.

He'll see no difference between the two. Like the guy who has a favorite fishing lure, he uses it all the time, and he swears it works better....of course, he uses it ALL THE TIME, as you do now with the FAT stuff.

Just trying to save him some $$$. You know as well as I, the antenna won't stay at that 50'run area. We've all been there. Right????.

Hey the rg8x will serve it's purpose just fine . Later an upgrade will happen and the rg8x will still be woiking as patch cords......don't ya think.

Pipsqueak,

A 60' run of Belden RG8X is going to have .931 dB loss. Radio Shack RG8X - 1.024dB loss! A 50' run of LMR-400 is going to have a .316 dB loss. It doesn't sound like much but on the receive end, it's the difference between being able to hear someone at the noise threshhold and not being able to hear them because they're below the noise threshhold.

Sure he can run the RG8X now if he wishes. It will work for him fine. In my opinion, the more people put into their station, the more enjoyment they get out of it. I do most of my communication on sideband, so that .6dB loss is a big deal to me.

Sure, others aren't going to notice a real difference on his transmit with one vs. the other. Transmit isn't everything.

Now, if he wants to run power, that RG8X is going to limit him much more so than the LMR-400 and remember, as the power increases, so does the loss. At a point, the loss is great enough to cause noticeable heat on the coax.

Some of us settle for mediocrity, as long as it works. Others of us like to push our equipment for what we believe it should be and go for the gold to begin with. I've always been a push-it-to-the-limit guy with anything I do - from computers to cars to my radio equipment. I'm just like that, always have been.

If you like RG8X, more power to you. I prefer better stuff. I've used both. I know what both do.

The guy wants to run a Texas Star 350 on the base so high performance coax is a waste. The suggestion is what's best for the thread starter's needs, not yours.

[djrebel236]

I just received the Antron-99 for my base. A friend told me I need to use the big coax but I thought about using LMR400. I don't know that I need LMR400 because all I am running is a TS-350 and a Connex 3300hp. I have seen the big coax before but I cannot remember what it is called. Need advice on this and some good places to order from. Maybe some links.

from personal experience, the RG*x mini works great for that setup, ive tried the lmr400 and it didnt work for me, the swr's were way too high, i use the 8xmini, the swr is low and i can run power on it and not hurt it...Dj

[TwentyTwo-Zero]

I guess the "correct" answer is dependent upon personal preference and expectation.
Yes, RG8x will work, but LMR400 would work better, and be more efficient.
As an example, let's look at the results of using a 50 foot run of coax with a 1:1 match:

Belden RF240 (RG8x)
Power In: 300 watts
Loss: 0.776dB
Power Out: 250.9 watts

LMR-400
Power In: 300 watts
Loss: 0.316dB
Power Out: 278.928

You will see 28.028 more watts at the antenna using the LMR400 versus the RG8x. The prices I looked at show the RG8x at .53 per foot and the LMR400 at .85 per foot - or a difference of $16.00 for a 50 foot run. Is it worth the extra $16.00? That's for you to decide. IMO it is well worth the investment. You will have a more efficient station (better TX/RX), the shielding is better (less potential for RF leakage) and so is the service life expectancy.

[Please login or register to view this link] has some of the better prices I have found

You can compare the loss of various coax [Please login or register to view this link]

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the above results are at 27MHz

[slydog]

A 50' run eh. OK, here's what to do. Forget the "big" stuff. We're on 27 MHz, an hf band.
For a short run and 300pep watts out, RG-8X (the small stuff) is very sufficient. HF isn't lossy as apposed to vhf, uhf. If you had a long run I'd suggest otherwise. But for now get 60 ft rg8x and make your connections (don't forget to buy the reducers). Latter on when you want to get that antenna "up there", and the run becomes longer, buy "big stuff". You'll then have 60ft of rg8x to cut up into spaghetti for station patch cords. No $$$ wasted.
pips

I actually had a 60' run of Belden RG8X before I got the LMR and there was a difference on the receive end. You're right in most cases a 50' run of LMR-400 is overkill, but 5 extra HP on an 850HP NASCAR engine could mean the difference between a top-10 and a win.

5 extra HP on an 850 HP engine might mean the difference between a top 10 and a win???????????????
I guess handling, traction, and aerodynamics don't mean much, do they?

[King Mudduck]

Runaway, I'm going to put it to you straight and i dont really care if anyone thinks i'm full of BS.

You ALWAYS ALWAYS want to get the very best coax you can afford from the start, that's why i gave you the link to the coax calculator so you could see yourself what works. I dont give a flip if your running a 10 watt CB radio or a 100K super bowl station you start with the lowest loss coax you can get, even if it does cost more than the cheap crap most CB shops sale because if you dont it will only cause you problems down the road and then you will have to buy new coax so why not start with the good stuff!

I cant for the life of me understand some fool spending a grand for an amp, $600.00 for a base station, $500.00 for an antenna and then they buy some old cheap coax because they think that the power of the amp and radio and the height of the antenna is all that matters. These are the guys that are getting stepped on out in DX land with there big 1000 watt stations and yet they sit back wondering why! The LMR-400 coax is fine, Is there better? Sure there is but regardless of what others say dont just go with what will get you by!. You say that you will only be using a 300 watt amp so others say that you dont need the good stuff?? With RG-8 you will have only 247 watts making it to the antenna assuming that your SWR is around 1.5. With the LMR-400 you will have 277 watts going to the antenna. With LMR- 600 you will have 285 watts going to the antenna. Don't you think that you would like to have as much power hitting your antenna as you can? I mean you paid for the amp you may as well get the most out of it right!

The good stuff will make your station sound like you are running much more power than you are.......and HELL YES others can tell the difference between cheap coax and the better coax because the cheap coax will not pass as much power as the good stuff will not to mention that the antenna WILL see the difference! The thing is that not only the amount of power that will make it from the amp to the antenna but you will also see in decrease in your noise level ( + better audio and modulation going out ) and a increase in the receive performance of the radio, you will also see a decrease in the SWR as well because the better coax is more efficient and because of that you will see less power reflected back into your radio/meter. I HAVE DONE THE TESTS, i have run the cheap stuff and i have seen the increase in total station performance with just a change to the good coax just as others have heard for them selves in the greatly improved sound quality of my station by doing so!

You always need to get the best coax you can no matter how much power you are running because without it......your just **Censored** in the wind!!

[THE WATCHMAN]

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION KING MUDDUCK IS 100% CORRECT.

[Black Lightning]

King Mudduck - you said it better than I could have.

I just don't understand how others can settle for mediocrity. What's insane is just how many people out there that not only settle for it, but try to get others to settle for it as well!

[Black Lightning]

A 50' run eh. OK, here's what to do. Forget the "big" stuff. We're on 27 MHz, an hf band.
For a short run and 300pep watts out, RG-8X (the small stuff) is very sufficient. HF isn't lossy as apposed to vhf, uhf. If you had a long run I'd suggest otherwise. But for now get 60 ft rg8x and make your connections (don't forget to buy the reducers). Latter on when you want to get that antenna "up there", and the run becomes longer, buy "big stuff". You'll then have 60ft of rg8x to cut up into spaghetti for station patch cords. No $$$ wasted.
pips

I actually had a 60' run of Belden RG8X before I got the LMR and there was a difference on the receive end. You're right in most cases a 50' run of LMR-400 is overkill, but 5 extra HP on an 850HP NASCAR engine could mean the difference between a top-10 and a win.

5 extra HP on an 850 HP engine might mean the difference between a top 10 and a win???????????????
I guess handling, traction, and aerodynamics don't mean much, do they?

Sorry, I should have said 'all else being equal' and yes, 5 extra HP, all else being equal, can and often does mean the difference between a top-10 and a win. This is because the cars are very closely matched - NASCAR has done awesome work in this area over the years. Proof? Kyle Busch - 'nuff said.

[djrebel236]

Ummm, ok go with the HYPE of the lmr400 b.s, that is junk, i bought into the hype and almost ruined mt radio cause of it, if ya want to buy new radios or new finals for it, fine buy the lmr400, money spent well, i recommend the mini8x for his setup or rg213...Dj