10 meter radios- legal?

[Turnpike]

For the last several years i have been using a tr966 in the big rig. But now i'm hungry for more power.
I would like a 10 meter radio but don't want to pay the fines. Does anyone ever heard of truckers getting busted for having a 10 meter?

[Bombero]

Heard of them getting busted for amps/linears/little black boxes

[Alien Abductor]

lol you will be fine, theres people out there runnings WAY more power

[Turbo-T]

As long as you're not yacking away on 10/12 meters no one is gonna know.

[Turnpike]

So if I get pulled over for speeding...the trooper won't bother with what's sitting on my dash. Is that correct?

['Doc]

I doubt if you'll have problems just for having a 10 meter radio. You can definitely have problems by how and where you use that 10 meter radio. As for you getting pulled over for speeding, the cop sees that radio on the dash, I doubt it there's more than maybe 100 of them in this whole country that would know a 10 meter radio from any other kind of radio. I sort of think that whatever else he may find on the dash would cause as much, or more trouble (radar detector, maybe?). So are they absolutely 'safe' to own? Oh, probably as safe as that keg of draw beer you got in the sleeper?
- 'Doc

[Pioneer621]

I have got to ask this; are you wanting to get a “10-meter” radio with a “built in amp”, or just the basic single or dual final type? If you are getting a basic type with just dual finals, I doubt your going to see much improvement from the TR-966 as far as the receiving station is concerned, just probably won’t be that much improvement unless it has an amplifier in it. It has been said, & what I have heard many times, is that to see a “1” s-unit gain on the receiving station you must quadruple your power output, so from your 12 to 20 watt peak with your TR-966 to your maybe 30 to 50 watt peak with your 10-meter radio, just don’t seem worth it unless you need all those extra frequencies & such.

In my opinion the TR-966 is not a bad radio, I have one on the bench right now that I have been getting the bugs worked out, when I got it, it had virtually no receive, & it was off frequency, I realigned the whole radio & everything seems great now, AM & SSB seems to be doing good, been testing on the base & mobile the past few days & all seems well, set the AM power at 4 watts carrier & set the modulation just before clipping & it peaks at maybe 9 to 12 watts peak, if I turned the modulation wide open it does about 20 to 22 watts peak ( I’m sure it can be peaked out to do a little more if I really wanted it to). I have got nothing but great reports on it so far, crystal clear audio & still plenty loud, same on side band, I use my good old D104 M6B when I’m base & mobile. I have not talked much SSB with it yet, only a little & it did a fine job for the quick testing a did, but AM seems to do very well.

I guess what I am saying is that the power difference between the two (unless you are getting a 10-meter radio with an amp) is going to be minimal, my President HR 2510 does 40 to 50 watts PEAK (12 watts average) no problem & switching between the two there is just not that much difference when getting a radio check, maybe the slightest increase, but just not enough to go out & get a new radio over in my opinion. If your solely getting it for the little extra wattage, going from 20 watts peak to 50 watts peak is not going to make you the badest radio around, & keep in mind the “average” output of a dual final radio at most is going to probably be double that of your TR-966 which is not much gain.

If you do get an export, I would just recommend staying off the 10-meter & 12-meter Amateur bands if it covers both, like the others have stated, but don’t think you would have problems otherwise either. I guess you could use it in the “free band”, but then again your Texas Ranger can be modified to operate there (well, where you would likely hear people anyway).

I am not trying to discourage you from getting a new radio; I always love getting new radios to play with! Every chance I get to get a new one to tinker with I do, whether it be to fix it up & sell it, or to keep, I just enjoy working on & testing out radios! So if you feel it is time for a new radio go for it! I just thought I’d add my 2 cents worth on what I thought about the “hungry for more power” statement; if you are thinking of just the basic dual final “barefoot” export.

Don’t know if any of this was “useful”, but I thought I’d post anyway! Take care! Pioneer621

[Wile E. Coyote]

I have a galaxy DX44V that is a 10 meter radio and love it. When I am on the road, you can go over to 10meter and talk quite a distance and have very little or no noise. There are a lot of truckers that talk on 10 meter. Just mind your pees an ques as to say and you will be fine. Used the 10 meter to get ahold of a rescue unit because of an accident once because I couldn't raise anyone on the am band. Was about 75 miles in the desert and had someone call the state police for the accident and rescue to come help. Cell phone did not help because was to far from a tower. There is a place and time to use what you got when needed and don't abuse it.

So, yes, 10 meter radio is just as fun as a regular CB and lots more. Enjoy

[TaterR]

You know where that saying "Mind your P's and Q's" comes from?

It's British and is short for "Mind your pints and quarts", as that's how the brew is served.

At least that's one school of thought about the phrase. There's you a little infomacation for the day.

[TheCBDoctor]

Hi TaterR

Mind your P's and Q's or Pints and Quarts is a polite way of saying pay your tab. I believe that is the correct interpretation. Any Brits out there that may explain if this is true?

As to the other question about being pulled over for doing 100 miles per hour and worrying about the police pulling your 10 meter out of you car, the only thing that will be pulled out of the car will be you

You would be lucky if the 10 meter isn't used to beat you.

[Black Lightning]

One of these 10 meter radios is like putting a V8 engine into a pollution controlled car which originally came with a 4-banger. Technically it's illegal but nobody's going to say or do anything about it unless you flaunt it like it's going out of style.

[Black Lightning]

Hi TaterR

Mind your P's and Q's or Pints and Quarts is a polite way of saying pay your tab. I believe that is the correct interpretation. Any Brits out there that may explain if this is true?

As to the other question about being pulled over for doing 100 miles per hour and worrying about the police pulling your 10 meter out of you car, the only thing that will be pulled out of the car will be you

You would be lucky if the 10 meter isn't used to beat you.

Now that's funny stuff right there!

[madsage]

its not illegal to own a 10meter radio, I own many radios, 160 meters, 80 meters, 40 meter, 20 meter, 17 meter, 15meter, 12meter, 11meter, 10meter, 6 meter, 2 meter, 70cm and EVERYTHING between. I am currently licensed to operate legally in accordance to FCC rules on only 5 of these bands. This does not mean I cannot OWN a radio capable of transmitting on a freq i am not privlidged for. Its also NOT illegal to own a 100KW amplifier! the legal limit for CB is 4watt and the legal limit for otehr bands is as low as what is required up to 1500watt. This doesnt mean you cannot own a 10KW station it means legaly you can only loaf it at about 1500 rms max if you are privlidged. ham radio licensed in this case, boradcasters licenses allow upto 100KW i believe, depending.

It is against fcc rules and enforceable by law to operate out of the rules unless it is an emergency, in an emergency you can use anything.
so unless you are actually caught operating, and it is not an emergency, there is no law against owning a radio. lol

also, ONLY the fcc has jurisdiction unless its a civil noise polution type complaint. complaint being the key word here!

what can be debated is, how much enforcement there is if any, and what exactly is an emergency.
i think unless you bringing negative attention to yourself by operating out of band or over power limit shutting down police communication or any other civil or federal service, you will be fine. And its also nice to have something you can use incase of a medical or rescue emergency.



hope that clears it up for ya,
i should have stuck more twords the CB side but it applies to all

933 Arizona
in the stickers

[Bozo]

For the last several years i have been using a tr966 in the big rig. But now i'm hungry for more power.
I would like a 10 meter radio but don't want to pay the fines. Does anyone ever heard of truckers getting busted for having a 10 meter?

Turnpike,

To summarize the previous posts... You don't have to worry about getting busted. Like one member said, most police officers wouldn't know the difference between a 11 meter radio, and a 1 Meter radio. Don't worry mate! I have been pulled over 1 time, having an amplifier got me out of a ticket. The cop asked me what was up with my antenna.



Then he asked me about power, I even told him that I had one. The funniest thing that he was back on

[madsage]

Thanks Bozo,

I get carried away sometimes, guess i could have said that all in one line.

[127]

So if I get pulled over for speeding...the trooper won't bother with what's sitting on my dash. Is that correct?

HUHHH??? You should know the answer to this question if you have been a driver for several years.

[Capndave]

10 meter radios are rampant,they are all over the place,but if you talk on the "ham" channels,the hammers will get **Censored** and make formal complaints if you are not licenced,most cops couldnt tell radios apart because that is NOT what they are looking for when they stop you.if you want one buy one, I suggest the general Lee with topgun modules. As far as the FCC goes, It has been my expierience that they will act on a complaint and nothing more,Ive had them called on me, but nine times out of ten you can basically run as much power as you want as long as nobody complains .

[Turnpike]

So if I get pulled over for speeding...the trooper won't bother with what's sitting on my dash. Is that correct?

HUHHH??? You should know the answer to this question if you have been a driver for several years.

On the truckingboards forum several guys refer to the imports as "illegal radios". since I have never had an import(and would like one) I was just wondering if
anyone every had problems with state troopers.

[madsage]

there are stipulations in the FCC rule that do not allow sales of non FCC compliant devices for "use" here in the states.
since these radios were never intended to be sold here or complient with our FCC, I believe this is where the illegal part comes in.

now again the language is easily challenged, being America is a free enterprise, it is very difficult for the courts to prove intent.
its not illegal to import and export a device. FCC complient or not. So here is the loop hole I believe.

I'm no lawyer, if we have any, or anybody with experiance in this.
Please feel free to correct or add to the comment.

Btw, many operators build thier own homebrew equiptment that is NOT FCC compliant or certified and this seems to be okay.
Or, have somebody else build homebrew for them. Purchasing components and assembly labor. which neither are illegal.
The key words all circle around operation or use, not possession.

933 Arizona
in the superstitions

[drdx]

First of all, you guys know me, so this isn't a radio police post, just information to help operators keep their legal wheels between the ditches. I'm totally pro freebanding but haven't done it in a while as a ham license is too easy to get these days and I don't want to lose mine.

If you want more power, get an amplifier and stick with that 966. It is a great radio and is rugged. I have one myself and other than it not staying tuned on frequency for ssb it is fine. As the saying in hot rods goes "chrome doesn't get you home", the same applies to radios. All of those channels, chrome, and many other useless features in no way further your signal out there and something that shiney is just more likely to get stolen. IF you want a new toy, get one, but don't expect a dramatic signal or range increase without really multiplying your wattage, as mentioned in the above post.

As far as 10 meters is concerned, other than escaping other operators, there is no range improvement by using it. It still picks up static and other annoying things so there is no magic to it. In fact, depending on your antenna, trying to talk distance on 10 meters would probably yield you worse range because the radio could be a little out of its optimal operating range, aka the term "rolloff", not really a big deal these days, and the fact that your antenna is tuned for cb. Going way out of the tuned area will just result in reduced performance in both receive and transmit.

10 meters starts at 28.000 mhz and is a ham band that can get you in trouble if the wrong people hear you and want to do something about it, which is not very likely unless you're really asking for it and above 28 mhz but it does happen. Maybe 10 meter so some is just the area above and below channels 1-40. That's what some call the freeband but those frequencies do have assigned purposes, not that it is really governed. As a general street rule, stay below 28 mhz and above 26 mhz. The closest ham band down below is 12 meters, and that's at the top of 24 mhz, around 24.930-990.

FYI, the 10 meter band has several segements designated for sideband, am, cw (morse code), and FM, not to mention other modes. The phone area (voice, sideband) begins at 28.3. Talking right in the bottom of 28 is the code segment. The fm part is way up in the 29.6 range. As conditions improve I suspect we will hear about more 10 meter talking and enforcement due to the number of these rigs out there on the road in the hands of those who are just looking for a quiet spot and don't know the rules.

-drdx

[jwalker48]

As others have said, technically they ARE illegal because they aren't certified for use on the CB band and they permit operation not ONLY on CB, but when they are converted, they operate on the actual 10 Meter band (28 MHZ and beyond), and that's what actually causes the trouble. If you STAY on CB, I doubt you'd have much trouble. What DOES cause trouble is when CBers stray up onto 10 Meters, and I can tell you, the reaction from the hams will not be pleasant! Here's how one might get caught using 10 Meters. You see, at least ONE segment of 10 Meters is set aside for Morse Code, Pactor--other "digital modes". Voice is not supposed to be used even by the hams themselves! So when somebody is chatting away on AM down on the lower end of 28 MHZ, guess what! It stands out like someone just whacked yer thumb with a hammer! The hams then actually have/would/couid/will go out and DF the stations who are doing the "bootlegging".
And a LOT more people have been caught than some of us are letting on here! I am reluctant to bring an example, but here is one recent one, AND there are others.
***************************************************************************************************
CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

April 30, 2009

Mr. Timothy C. Hilgeman

Fairborn, OH

Re: WARNING FOR UNLICENSED RADIO OPERATION

EB-09-GB-0099

Dear Mr. Hilgeman:

It has come to the attention of the Federal Communications Commission that
at multiple times in the last several months you have operated overpowered
transmitting equipment on 11 meters that has interfered with
communications in the 10 meter band, for which a license is required.

The Commission's rules require that you operate your CB station with an
FCC certified CB transmitter. The rules also prohibit the use of external
radiofrequency power amplifiers (sometimes called linears or linear
amplifiers). The rules further provide that use of a non-certified CB
transmitter and/or power amplifiers voids your authority to operate the
station.

Operation of radio transmitting equipment without a valid FCC
authorization is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of
1934, as amended, and may subject the responsible parties to substantial
monetary forfeitures, in rem arrest action against the offending radio
equipment, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment. Because
unlicensed operation creates a danger of interference to important radio
communications services and may subject the operator to severe penalties,
this warning emphasizes the importance of complying strictly with these
legal requirements.

UNAUTHORIZED OPERATION OF THIS RADIO STATION MUST CEASE IMMEDIATELY.

You have ten (10) days from the date of receipt of this warning to respond
to this office. The response must contain a statement of the specific
action(s) taken to bring your CB station into compliance with the
Commission's rules and should include a time line for completion of
pending corrective action(s). You are directed to support your response
with a signed and dated affidavit or declaration under penalty of perjury,
verifying the truth and accuracy of the information submitted in your
response. Your response should be sent to the address in the letterhead
and reference the listed case number.

In an inquiry of this type we are required to notify you that under the
Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. S: 552a(e)(3), the Commission's staff will
use all relevant information before it, including information you disclose
in your reply, to determine what, if any, enforcement action is warranted
in this matter.

You may contact me at 717-338-2577 should you wish to discuss this matter.

Sincerely,

Laura L. Smith

Special Counsel

Cc: Detroit Field Office

Northeast Regional Director

47 C.F.R. S: 95.409(a).

47 C.F.R. S: 95.411(a) (1).

See 47 C.F.R. S:S: 95.409(a); 95.411(b).

47 U.S.C. S: 301.

Fines normally range from $7,500 to $10,000.

See S:S: 401, 501, 503, 510.
*****************************************************************************************************

Laura Smith replaced R Hollingsworth as Special Counsel for Amateur Enforcement, and she has been pretty busy. So there ARE several letters not only to CBers for violating the ham bands, but to hams themselves. Not like she's "picking on" anybody. If you want to read these letters and decide for yourself the risk, then read [Please login or register to view this link].

But, again, if you KNOW WHERE you're talking (not letting those "band" switches lead you into trouble, I doubt you'd get noticed. They say some of the "10 Meter" radios splatter into 10M even when talking on 11M, but I don't know about that.

Hope that helps.


Jwalker

[madsage]

yep, that looks like a typical warning from somebodies complaint.
i dont know the circumstances here, nor should I stand in judgment of this person,
but i cant help but thinking most of these fall into negative attention category.

and all CBers should know, most of the lower 28mhz is digital and cw, ssb phone starts at 28.300 - 28.500 usb, for technician class.
10-10 international call frequency is 28.380 and 28.400, i would invite all to come and listen when propagation is good. and if you are interested in getting involved, take the technician class fcc test. its very simple, and costs $15. There are 10yr olds getting thier license, it also opens up another whole world of vhf/uhf and microwave radio.

so dont be afraid to buy a 10 meter radio,


933 Arizona




10 METERS
28.025 CW Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here – Split
28.060 QRP CW Calling frequency
28.080 RTTY Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here -- Split
28.080 to 28.100 Primary Range for RTTY
28.1010 10/10 Intl CW Calling Frequency
28.110 QRP Novice/Tech Calling FREQ
28.190-28.225 Beacons

28.200 NCDXF/IARU beacons (STAY OFF OF THIS FREQUENCY) Many Hams rely on these beacons for propagation determination. For Details - see NCDXF/IARU International Beacon Network

28.380 10/10 SSB Intl Calling Frequency
28.385 QRP SSB Calling frequency
28.425 10/10 SSB Intl Calling Frequency – Another is 28.400
28.495 SSB Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here -- Split
28.600 Old General Callin Frequency - Still used by Old Timers
28.675~28.685 SSTV Operating Frequency -- IARU Region 1
28.680 SSTV Operations USA/Canada
28.825 10-10 Backskatter Net - Paper Chasers Net
28.885 6M DX Liaison Frequency -- Listen here for 6 Meter DX opening announcements and discussions.
28.945 FAX Operating Frequency
29.000-29.200 AM Operations
29.300-29.510 Satellite Downlinks
29.520-29.580 Repeater Inputs
29.600 FM Simplex - Calling Frequency
29.620-29.680 Repeater Outputs
PSK31

[Turbo-T]

10 METERS
28.025 CW Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here – Split
28.060 QRP CW Calling frequency
28.080 RTTY Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here -- Split
28.080 to 28.100 Primary Range for RTTY
28.1010 10/10 Intl CW Calling Frequency
28.110 QRP Novice/Tech Calling FREQ
28.190-28.225 Beacons

28.200 NCDXF/IARU beacons (STAY OFF OF THIS FREQUENCY) Many Hams rely on these beacons for propagation determination. For Details - see NCDXF/IARU International Beacon Network

28.380 10/10 SSB Intl Calling Frequency
28.385 QRP SSB Calling frequency
28.425 10/10 SSB Intl Calling Frequency – Another is 28.400
28.495 SSB Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here -- Split
28.600 Old General Callin Frequency - Still used by Old Timers
28.675~28.685 SSTV Operating Frequency -- IARU Region 1
28.680 SSTV Operations USA/Canada
28.825 10-10 Backskatter Net - Paper Chasers Net
28.885 6M DX Liaison Frequency -- Listen here for 6 Meter DX opening announcements and discussions.
28.945 FAX Operating Frequency
29.000-29.200 AM Operations
29.300-29.510 Satellite Downlinks
29.520-29.580 Repeater Inputs
29.600 FM Simplex - Calling Frequency
29.620-29.680 Repeater Outputs
PSK31

Hey....I've always heard to not use 28.000-28.300 because it's for morse code.....yeah I know an unlicensed person should not use any of those bands but suppose I just wanted to strike up a friendly chat? Are the freq's from 28.3000 on up ok for voice communications?

[Circuit Breaker]

I don't know...the impression I get from some people is that it's okay to use 10 meters and that amateur radio operators have no right to get upset when they find an unlicensed user. I have a license...but I started on CB in the mid-80s. I even did some operating on the freeband. But I never transmitted on 10 meters. I guess it was a respect kind of thing. I felt the people who had licenses earned the right to be there and it encouraged me to get my license. It was something I worked towards and something I could view as an accomplishment. Unlicensed users on 10 meters, most of whom are CBers, is one reason (out of many) a lot of amateurs have such a poor view of CB operators. Although, it's kind of funny because I hear a lot of amateur radio operators using their HF radios on CB. Anyway, I'm just saying, as a licensed operator that came from CB...operate wherever you want. You can even go to 10 or 12 meters to listen. I only ask that you not transmit there unless you have a license. Besides, getting one today is so incredibly easy. About a week's worth of studying for 30 minutes a day should get you a Technician class license easily...maybe even a General. But even with as easy as it is today, you can still get satisfaction from knowing you worked to achieve something.

[Circuit Breaker]

Hey....I've always heard to not use 28.000-28.300 because it's for morse code.....yeah I know an unlicensed person should not use any of those bands but suppose I just wanted to strike up a friendly chat? Are the freq's from 28.3000 on up ok for voice communications?

Not if you aren't licensed. There may be some users on 10 that don't care. But a lot will and won't talk to you if you don't have a license.