Rusty Sidebander, Trying to Get Back In

[Bolster]

Hello Sidebanders! Glad I found your forum. Hopefully you don't mind a long first post. Here's my story:

In the mid 1990s (before cellphones were everywhere) I was going to school in Arizona. I enjoyed camping, so taking my 100K-mile truck to out-of-the-way places in Arizona meant I needed a way to yelp for help if I got into trouble. Plus, I enjoyed sidebanding (didn't spend much time on AM). One time my rig (pictured below) saved me. Two simultaneous flats on some dusty forgotten road, and I had to keep turning up the linear amp until I was able to reach a trucker who put in a call to the tow truck. I kept my radio and amp but have not used it since then.

Fast foward to now: my camping days are over. Married, raising a kid, now I live in the south bay of Los Angeles. In the event of any sort of an emergency, we are told we will be the LAST people to leave L.A. so we'd better be prepared to hunker down. No freeways close to us. So our community is big on "preparedness" and I'm trying to get prepared too. Our disaster preparedness people keep pushing amateur radio classes on us, and maybe I will do that...later...but for now I just want to get my old sideband rig working again.

Problem is, I didn't keep notes on my previous setup. So I have some questions I'm hoping you can help with, which I'll post up next. Thanks!

EDIT: Odd, I can't post an image. Well, it's here... www (dot) cmp-usa (dot) com/interest/GrantCB_LinAmp.jpg

Can someone tell me how to post an image, do you need a post count first or something?

[Bolster]

If you couldn't find the image referred to above, it's a Grant XL SSB radio and a Messenger 175 Lin Amp. Antenna is a 3-ft Firestick on a magnetic mount.

Some questions:

* I recollect I needed heavy copper cabling directly from the battery to the amp and radio, but don't recall what gauge it was? Need to replace it.

* I've completely forgotten what REC on the Lin Amp means. Which way is that switch set? What's the REC light mean, again? (Embarrassed.)

* Why does the lin amp say 80-15 meter? I thought SSB needed 10 or 11 meter? Just curious, it works fine.

• Was there ever a manual with this lin amp? If so I lost mine ages ago. Not sure it's necessary, I think it's a pretty simple device. FYI, I didn't use it much, mostly kept it off except when I needed the range when remote. Didn't like how it sucked down the amperage.

• I'm preparing this set to be portable...to work in my truck or in my house or wherever. When away from DC, the power supply will be a Honda EU2000i, and it sounds like the way I want to run the power is: From generator to 12V battery, and from 12V battery to the amp/radio. Does that sound right? Because I notice the generator says that the DC output is ONLY for use with a battery. Don't know why it says that.

Thanks!

[231]

Hi Bolster and welcome to the forum. Wavin' a hand from the Pacific NW.

First off the reason you can't post images yet is because the forum software requires minimum of 10 posts or something. We've had troublemakers come and post inappropriate images here along with spammer and it's about all we can do to prevent that. I'd hotlink to your image for you but it's too large for the forum so you'll either need to wait until you have 10 posts or resize it and one of the moderators or admins can link to it for you.

Looks like a nice set up though. First off the pre-amp is nothing more than a receive amplifier. I rarely use mine unless way out in the sticks where there is zero noise. Even then it's not likely to help with a quiet receive like the radio you have. I have one too...one of the older XL's and older Taiwan made 148GTL's. The sought after ones that is. Hold on to it. If you need to have someone go through and align it for you the [Please login or register to view this link] (one of the forum sponsors here) specializes in those rigs.

I too run primarily SSB by the way, and nothing has changed there. As far as your other questions;
- It reads 80-15m because their claim is that the amplifier will cover those bands. I call baloney on that though, it's designed for 11m and would probably work on 10m, but not as clean I'd ever consider running on 10m.

- The REC just means receive. On the amp it'd likely mean receive pre-amp.

- You can look on CBTricks.com for the manual or schematic. If it's around they'll likely have it.

- I'm not sure on the generator you have. I'm sure one of the others will. I'd probably go to a charger to a battery. That's probably only a 2 final transistor (pill) amp, so it's not going to draw a ton of amps. But I'd probably use at least #10 or #8 with it just in case. The radio I think has #16 or #18 on it which is fine.

Take a look through the [Please login or register to view this link] and refresh your knowledge some and you'll be back on track before you know it.

As far as getting your ham ticket, it's up to you. Lots of us here are hams and do CB too.

[Bolster]

Yes, excellent 231, thanks for the reply. Good background material referenced and I'll read it. Should knock off some of the rust.

Just to make sure I understand you, when you say "the pre-amp is nothing more than a receive amplifier": Are you saying that the REC switch controls a pre-amp (which is relatively useless) within the amplifier, or are you saying the whole Messenger 175 unit is a receive-only pre-amp? Because I recollect this Messenger unit boosted my transmit signal considerably. I think you're talking about the REC switch as a pre-amp in which case I think I just left it "off" all the time. But the Messenger 175 can be used as a scofflaw linear amplifier for transmission, right?

And are you saying this linear amp is a sought-after unit, or the radio itself? I remember the amp being sorta plain vanilla when I bought it, and of low power to what other guys were buying.

Now that you mention it, I'm recollecting that the 80-15 meter label was something of a deception. Gotcha.

#10 or #8 wire, that sounds right. I'll go with #8 to be safe. Thanks.

[Bolster]

Update: I noticed that there are no manuals for any of the Messenger amplifiers at the site you mention above, which makes me wonder if it ever came with anything more than a little installation sheet. There are schematics for the Messengers, but none for the 175. I don't think it'll matter much, I'm sure you guys'll help me get this running again.

[Bolster]

Here's the specs on that Amp:

Messenger 175
Price: $143
PEP Output = 225
Inpute Drive = 4
Amps Draw = 16
Features = Class AB-1, 3 Power sets
Transistors = 2xMRF455
Rating = 60w

Does that help determine size of cable from battery? Figure the line will run maybe 10 feet maximum.

[231]

Here's the specs on that Amp:

Messenger 175
Price: $143
PEP Output = 225
Inpute Drive = 4
Amps Draw = 16
Features = Class AB-1, 3 Power sets
Transistors = 2xMRF455
Rating = 60w

Does that help determine size of cable from battery? Figure the line will run maybe 10 feet maximum.

Yea, if the amp has #10 on it, that'll do. Depending on how far away from the power source you mount it I might even consider #8 from the battery. And really, the first 100w is the biggest boost.

And yes...REC is likely the pre-amp (receive) on the amp. And no, I wasn't talking about the amp being sought after, but the older Taiwan and Pilly made XL's and 148GTL's.

If CBTricks has nothing on it, then I wouldn't know where to look. Most amps don't have much in the way of user manuals.

Best of luck.

[Bolster]

Thanks. Sorry about all the questions.

Can I use the SWR meter built into the radio to tune the antenna, even with the linear amp in place? Or does the amp inline, require a separate external SWR meter?

[Bolster]

Just looked, this is a Philippines made unit. Never noticed that before. I have cachet! Woo!

[Bolster]

Thanks. Sorry about all the questions.

Can I use the SWR meter built into the radio to tune the antenna, even with the linear amp in place? Or does the amp inline, require a separate external SWR meter?

Bad question, retracted. I'm reading the SWR meter must go between the amp and the antenna.

I'd edit or delete the question but I see no editing button. Thanks.

[Bolster]

10 posts, woo hoo! Now I can show you a photo.

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[paBullwinkle]

you got your self a really good setup. here are a few suggestions to give you. if your looking to use the radio in emergency situations the best thing to do would be to regularly test the radio and amp to make sure they still function so that in time of emergency they are fully functioning and you don't have to mess with them.

[Bolster]

paBullwink is absolutely correct. I never should have let this rig sit in the box for so long. Time to get it working again. But temporarily, forward means reverse. Lost several hours making this jig out of aluminum and brass. Anybody recognize it? Hopefully all will be made clear in the next post (...IF it works as planned!)

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[Bolster]

Progress under way...

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[Bolster]

Custom box, glued up but still in the raw...it's designed to be open front and back for ventilation, with airspace all around the components. A compromise? Yes. But easy to store and haul around? Also yes.

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[paBullwinkle]

Looks good now lets get that radio of your workin.

[TwentyTwo-Zero]

As 231 mentioned, a short run of 10 gauge wire will work okay, but I would seriously consider using a (minimum) of 8 gauge. That way you insure sufficient amperage will reach the amp. If you plan on upgrading to a higher output amp later on you may want to consider an even larger gauge wire. Otherwise, you may need to upgrade your wiring in the future. The (original) Messenger amps are no longer being made. They are an excellent choice for SSB since they are an AB class design. The sticker on top shows the recommended carrier and pep ratings for the amp. I would follow, and not exceed those recommendations. If possible, have your antenna tuned using an antenna analyzer rather than an SWR meter. If that isn't possible, use an external SWR meter (not the one in the radio) and tune the antenna without the amp inline. Once the antenna is tuned you should see very little (if any) difference in the SWR when you put the amp inline. If you do, it indicates that either the input or output tuning of the amp is not properly adjusted, or you have a bad relay. It's doubtful though that you will have that problem with that particular amp.

[Bolster]

Thanks for the advice. I had never heard of an antenna analyzer. My plan was to use my external SWR meter, but I hit a snag...I can't find it anywhere! My ham radio friend is returning after the weekend and will let me borrow his external SWR meter. (Maybe he has an analyzer!!) Well, that gave me time to machine a bracket for the amp. One downside to this amp is they do not make it easy to grab onto, so I basically built a clamp for it. Hopefully I'll have more progress to report soon.

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[Bolster]

Update: Went to my Ham friend's house, hooked up the radio and amp to regulated supplies. All appears to be functioning, listened a good while, although we did not transmit (didn't have antenna tuned--it's a Firestik by the way). And that's because I didn't have the radio wired in. So now the wiring. Good grief, I have three fuses on the wire from the battery. One near the battery hot (a slow burn), then one fuse near the amp (20A, it draws 16) and one near the radio (4A). Tomorrow I poke the wires through the firewall, but all progress has stopped because I am missing a simple rubber grommet for the hole! And so it goes.

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Good news is: Ham friend has an antenna analyzer, not just an SWR.

[Bolster]

Some progress, finally. I gotta say, running the wiring through the firewall is my least favorite part. 10 ga wire through grommet near main wiring harness, then sealed with silicone. This is under the battery.

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Now with battery replaced, hot runs (and is fused) to positive terminal, ground is forward left of photo, with red collar. All connections soldered, most with shrink tube over the solder.

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Inside the firewall, routed up and into the glove box, here shown open. Wire can be wound up and stowed easily & out of sight.

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And here's the box, with the radio and amp mounted, sitting on the passenger's seat.

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You guys will speak up if I'm doing something wrong here, won't you?

[Bolster]

Spent half an hour listening to 38 LSB. I'm in Mexifornia (California near the Mexican border), and I clearly heard New Orleans (518), Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, and Ohio. Wow, I'd forgotten how amazing SSB was when the skip was running. I did not key-up, because my friend with the antenna tuner won't be back till Friday. I have no idea how out-of-tune my antenna is. So I'll just listen until then.

[Eskimo_Pie]

Welcome Bolster!!

Everything looks good so far!! I'd recommend a better antenna with your set up. At minimum a Wilson 1000 or 5000 mag mount, either will handle the amp no problem. You will also see an improvement in receive as well. Is there a reason you need a 3' fiberglass whip? The Wilson will be about 5 foot tall. Have fun and hope to hear you out there in DX land.

Greg

[Eskimo_Pie]

Forgot to add, you can put a right-angle plug on the end of the mic cable so it will face the front instead of coming out the mic-cable "port" on your box set up. You can find them on 3bay, I've got 5-pin right angles on all my mic cables, just my 2¢'s

Greg

[Bolster]

I'd recommend a better antenna with your set up. At minimum a Wilson 1000 or 5000 mag mount, either will handle the amp no problem. You will also see an improvement in receive as well. Is there a reason you need a 3' fiberglass whip? The Wilson will be about 5 foot tall.

Thanks for that! I can think of no reason I ended up with a fiberglass, other than that's what a radio store owner sold me 15 years ago. What's a fiberglas good for, anyway? What's its "strong point"...if any? And while I'm asking...what would determine whether I get the 1000 or the 5000? Thanks!

[paBullwinkle]

what would determine the 1000 or the 5000 would be how many watts. will you be putting out 1000 watts or less or more than 1000 watts? for 1000watts or less the wilson 1000 for mor than 1000 watts wilsone 5000.